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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 7340223" data-attributes="member: 6785785">So I'm currently reading the RPG "Tales From the Loop". It's an interesting game....very much in the vein of "Stranger Things" and similar fiction, right down to the 80s setting. I think it's a good example of player driven gaming. Each player designs a "Kid" as a character, with an archetype of some sort serving as what we would think of as a character class (Bookworm, Jock, Troublemaker, Popular kid, etc.). When the players make their Kids, they choose certain story elements; each Kid has a Problem, a Drive, a Pride, and an Anchor, all of which contribute to the story. The Problem is essential as the GM is expected to bring the Problem up during play. So if a Kid's problem is "I'm scared of the dark", then the GM will introduce a dark place in which some of the story will take place. And so on. The game is also interesting because all rolls are made by the players. When a Kid gets into Trouble...the GM can put a kid in Trouble or the players can....they decide what Attribute/Skill to use to get out of Trouble. So the players have a lot of agency. They can come up with creative ways to get out of Trouble, and then steer the action in that way. They basically pick which Atribute/Skill used to get out of a situation, and they have to make a case for it, and the GM decides if they can do so, or if another Attribute/Skill is needed. Throughout the book, there are many examples of "The GM has final say". On a failed check, very often the GM indicates success with a complication rather than outright failure. This kind of element seems in line with the "indie" approach that is being advocated for in this thread. So the game is by no means shy about Players driving the elements of the story. But neither is the game afraid of the GM using his judgment. Much of the game comes from the GM. For instance, NPC actions and their success or failure are decided by GM fiat. The Mystery itself (the story or adventure that the players are facing) is designed by the GM, within constraints of the setting. There's an assumed setting, but I can see taking the core mechanics and themes and coming up with a homebrew take on the game. I think reading through this game I was just struck by how obvious of a middle road it is between Player Driven and GM Driven. It immediately made me think of this thread. And I think it also touches upon something that I think is core to the discussion. It's in game design. If a game is designed with a Player Driven approach, then of course that is how play will proceed. The mechanics of the game support that style, and indeed, enforce it. If a game is not designed with such mechanics, then I don't think it means that it is impossible to incorporate Player Driven material, but the game is not actively calling for it, so it may be less likely. The assumed or default mode of play may lean heavily on the GM. But there is nothing stopping a GM from increasing the amount of Player Driven focus s/he allows. In such a game, the GM has to actively get the players to offer material, and then has to actively decide how to use it. There's nothing preventing this, but most of the time, the mechanics don't enforce it. And I think that's likely the crux of any lingering failure for folks in the discussion to understand the "other side".</blockquote>

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