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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7344684" data-attributes="member: 16814">I do so love my honesty being questioned right off the bat, as if I've acted, in any way, in a dishonest fashion towards you or anyone else in this thread at any time.  I find your framing to be very rude and unhelpful, and would ask you moderate it.  If you can't make a point without claiming others are dishonest, do me the favor of not responding to me anymore.  Thank you.That said, you've completely missed the point I was making, but I'll answer your question anyway.Yes, a teapot full of dragons now exists in your front garden in the fiction you created.  No, there is almost certainly not a teapot full of dragons in your front garden that can be seen, touched, heard, smelled, or tasted. This, however, doesn't address my point, which was, in this case, specifically that [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] claimed that Hound of the Baskervilles existed as a story but Sherlock Holmes does not.  To put it in your example, this would be like claiming the teapot full of dragons exists but the dragons do not.  It's nonsensical.  Either the dragons and the teapot exist or they do not, unless there's some other reason the teapot full of dragons can exist while the dragons do not and, if so, state that reason.  That was what I was saying in the part you quoted.  It has nothing to do with me thinking that teapots full of dragons exist in a physical sense in any way.But, as for fiction existing, I argue that it does.  Fictions are ideas, and ideas have existence.  Not physical existence you can touch.  An imaginary orc cannot be touched or even seen by even the imaginer, but such sensations can be imagined to exist and described to others so as to share the idea.  The idea others now have of your orc isn't the same, but is can be similar enough to call it shared.  I can't share things that don't exist.  Something is there to be shared.To return to your teapot full of dragons in your front garden, at no point do I assume that this a truthful statement about a physical reality -- I don't believe that there is a touchable, visible teapot full of touchable, visible dragons in your front garden (I do believe in your touchable and visible front garden, though, or at least that you may actually have such a real thing).  However, the fiction you created about a teapot of dragons in your front garden is a concept that you've managed to share with me -- you've given me this concept such that I can picture in my mind a teapot full of dragons in a front garden (sadly, it's a rather pathetic garden, but the teapot has a nice floral pattern and the dragons are iridescent green and adorable).  You're shared something with me, given me an idea that is, at least in the broad strokes, just like the idea you have.  That's real, that exists, else how did we share it?Hopefully, by directly addressing your question and providing a full answer, I can avoid the return accusation of dishonesty.</blockquote>

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