Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7344693" data-attributes="member: 16814">I agree in the sense of a passive mystery -- those mysteries that don't do anything until the players engage them the correct way.&nbsp; Whodunnits are passive mysteries, where you're trying to find and sort clues to find the &quot;truth&quot; of the events that have already taken place.&nbsp; These mysteries are hard in DM-driven games because the fiction generation necessary to find the truth is held by the DM and only parceled out to the players as they clear certain fictional gates.&nbsp; The problem with DM's holding information too tightly and ruining their games is apt here.&nbsp; This can be overcome by using a number of techinques to a greater or lesser extent -- the triple clue method, using &quot;ninjas attack&quot; (any bad guy) that happen to have clear clues with them when defeated to get groups unstuck, etc., but these all just try to paper over the worse issues of the passive mysteries.In player driven games, it's both easier and weirder.&nbsp; Here, the endpoint cannot be determined, just the initial setup.&nbsp; At that point it's off to the races as the players invent their own clues and test them against the mechanics.&nbsp; The end result is wildly (but often entertainingly) unpredictable.&nbsp; System mechanics can act to constrain and funnel some of this, but the result is that you're not really solving a mystery in the classic sense, but rather building one as you go along and finding out the ending as a surprise.&nbsp; I, in my DM-facing game, avoid passive mysteries in favor of active mysteries.&nbsp; In these, the events are still unfolding, and they come to the players.&nbsp; The DM can control the flow of information to achieve better pacing with the ultimate goal of having the players gain full knowledge of the mystery.&nbsp; The crux of play here isn't solving the mystery, it's what the players do with the information.&nbsp; I find this works well by increasingly releasing the fictional constraints and adopting player theories and actions to guide the mystery as you go along.&nbsp; It's a kind of middle ground, where you start with some strong themes and push them a few times until the players are working it out on their own and you only have to keep providing framing to let them move forward.&nbsp; Tight control at the beginning shifting to more and more player autonomy by the end with the players ultimately decides how they want to engage the revealed mystery as the climax.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 7344693, member: 16814"] I agree in the sense of a passive mystery -- those mysteries that don't do anything until the players engage them the correct way. Whodunnits are passive mysteries, where you're trying to find and sort clues to find the "truth" of the events that have already taken place. These mysteries are hard in DM-driven games because the fiction generation necessary to find the truth is held by the DM and only parceled out to the players as they clear certain fictional gates. The problem with DM's holding information too tightly and ruining their games is apt here. This can be overcome by using a number of techinques to a greater or lesser extent -- the triple clue method, using "ninjas attack" (any bad guy) that happen to have clear clues with them when defeated to get groups unstuck, etc., but these all just try to paper over the worse issues of the passive mysteries. In player driven games, it's both easier and weirder. Here, the endpoint cannot be determined, just the initial setup. At that point it's off to the races as the players invent their own clues and test them against the mechanics. The end result is wildly (but often entertainingly) unpredictable. System mechanics can act to constrain and funnel some of this, but the result is that you're not really solving a mystery in the classic sense, but rather building one as you go along and finding out the ending as a surprise. I, in my DM-facing game, avoid passive mysteries in favor of active mysteries. In these, the events are still unfolding, and they come to the players. The DM can control the flow of information to achieve better pacing with the ultimate goal of having the players gain full knowledge of the mystery. The crux of play here isn't solving the mystery, it's what the players do with the information. I find this works well by increasingly releasing the fictional constraints and adopting player theories and actions to guide the mystery as you go along. It's a kind of middle ground, where you start with some strong themes and push them a few times until the players are working it out on their own and you only have to keep providing framing to let them move forward. Tight control at the beginning shifting to more and more player autonomy by the end with the players ultimately decides how they want to engage the revealed mystery as the climax. [/QUOTE]

Verification