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What is *worldbuilding* for?
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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7344802" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>Do you never differentiate between in-character and out-of-character during play? It's the same thing...</p><p></p><p>Or is everything in your game done from a third-person stance, completely 'gamist' and without character immersion?</p><p></p><p>Says you, ignoring options other than just add or do nothing:</p><p></p><p>Change the story without adding: there's a giant red teapot full of kittens in your garden (player agency at work right there!)</p><p>Ask questions for clarification about the story: the teapot's yellow, but what colour are the dragons; and how long has this all been there? (in other words, got you to add to the story rather than me)</p><p></p><p>No matter what system she's using, if a DM presented the elements of her game world to her players with that level of consistency and continuity she'd be rightfully sacked in the first session.</p><p></p><p>If a game world is to be believable and playable there has to be some internal consistency and continuity or else the players can't possibly be expected to interact with it on any meaningful level at all. And consistency and continuity both bring about and come from causality, where one thing reasonably leads to the next.</p><p></p><p>In the real world, this is true.</p><p></p><p>But in a game setting there's another layer to it all; a layer which you choose to wilfully (and wrongly, I think) deny the existence of: the reality within the fiction.</p><p></p><p>Does the fiction about the teapot etc. exist in real life? Yes.</p><p>Do the teapot etc. exist in real life? No.</p><p>Do the teapot etc. exist within the fiction that has been created about them? Yes.</p><p></p><p>Now while the above is an admittedly pointless distinction in regards to the fictional teapot - in the fiction as presented it just passively sits there and holds whatever's in it - it's a very important distinction in regards to player characters in a game world, as the whole basis of the game assumes that not only do the PCs exist within the game world (i.e. the fiction) but that furthermore they can and will react independently* to elements presented within that fiction.</p><p></p><p>* - independently as directed by their players, who in the real world are also reacting via their words to elements of the fiction as presented by the words of the DM.</p><p></p><p>I've no argument with the idea that fictional things are authored by real people.</p><p></p><p>Well, when that authorship comes about via the authors immersing themselves into the imaginary world and acting or reacting as their avatars (PCs) would logically do, doesn't it only make sense to analyse it from that angle? To see how, within the imaginary world, one thing can lead to another?</p><p></p><p>I'm not looking to analyze why Joe always rolls his dice from left to right and tries to hit the chip bowl for luck; nor am I looking to analyze why Steve always follows along with Mary's suggestions while most of the time ignoring John's and rarely making any of his own. That's not the point here.</p><p></p><p>I'm looking in this thread to analyze and explain what worldbuilding is for. Worldbuilding, as in the building of imaginary worlds that don't exist in real life but still need to be made internally consistent within themselves in order to be playable and at least a tiny bit more realistic than a bad LSD trip. And that consistency comes about via internal causality - one thing leads to the next - both in the worldbuilding phase and the actual run of play.</p><p></p><p>Real world: Cause: I declare my character casting a fireball. Effect: I roll some damage dice (along with maybe an aiming roll depending on system), add 'em up, and the DM does some arithmetic to her monsters' remaining h.p. totals. (<em>I-the-player don't hear the goblins screaming</em>)</p><p></p><p>Game world: Cause: Amelia Xana casts a spell using the requisite components, motions and utterances that she has been taught to use. Effect: a small bead shoots from her hand and explodes among some goblins, killing most and leaving the few screaming survivors in a world o' hurt. (<em>Amelia doesn't hear the rolling dice</em>)</p><p></p><p>Call it garbage if you like but your calling of it doesn't make it so.</p><p></p><p>And, to play the same type of game, in fact here you're not typing real words at all; and neither am I.</p><p></p><p>Oh sure, our fingers are hitting keys but nothing real comes of it; just something ephemeral on a screen, put there by interacting electrons. I can only assume the words you see on your screen after I post this will be the same as I see on mine - we have to share that mutual trust and belief. The same is true in a shared imaginary world: we have to share a mutual trust and belief that the elements of the game world are what we think they are, as presented by the DM.</p><p></p><p>The words would only become truly real - as in physically existing - were we to send each other letters on paper.</p><p></p><p>Lan-"even a print-screen won't make the words real without the mutual trust and belief that the electrons have put your actual words on the screen"-efan</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7344802, member: 29398"] Do you never differentiate between in-character and out-of-character during play? It's the same thing... Or is everything in your game done from a third-person stance, completely 'gamist' and without character immersion? Says you, ignoring options other than just add or do nothing: Change the story without adding: there's a giant red teapot full of kittens in your garden (player agency at work right there!) Ask questions for clarification about the story: the teapot's yellow, but what colour are the dragons; and how long has this all been there? (in other words, got you to add to the story rather than me) No matter what system she's using, if a DM presented the elements of her game world to her players with that level of consistency and continuity she'd be rightfully sacked in the first session. If a game world is to be believable and playable there has to be some internal consistency and continuity or else the players can't possibly be expected to interact with it on any meaningful level at all. And consistency and continuity both bring about and come from causality, where one thing reasonably leads to the next. In the real world, this is true. But in a game setting there's another layer to it all; a layer which you choose to wilfully (and wrongly, I think) deny the existence of: the reality within the fiction. Does the fiction about the teapot etc. exist in real life? Yes. Do the teapot etc. exist in real life? No. Do the teapot etc. exist within the fiction that has been created about them? Yes. Now while the above is an admittedly pointless distinction in regards to the fictional teapot - in the fiction as presented it just passively sits there and holds whatever's in it - it's a very important distinction in regards to player characters in a game world, as the whole basis of the game assumes that not only do the PCs exist within the game world (i.e. the fiction) but that furthermore they can and will react independently* to elements presented within that fiction. * - independently as directed by their players, who in the real world are also reacting via their words to elements of the fiction as presented by the words of the DM. I've no argument with the idea that fictional things are authored by real people. Well, when that authorship comes about via the authors immersing themselves into the imaginary world and acting or reacting as their avatars (PCs) would logically do, doesn't it only make sense to analyse it from that angle? To see how, within the imaginary world, one thing can lead to another? I'm not looking to analyze why Joe always rolls his dice from left to right and tries to hit the chip bowl for luck; nor am I looking to analyze why Steve always follows along with Mary's suggestions while most of the time ignoring John's and rarely making any of his own. That's not the point here. I'm looking in this thread to analyze and explain what worldbuilding is for. Worldbuilding, as in the building of imaginary worlds that don't exist in real life but still need to be made internally consistent within themselves in order to be playable and at least a tiny bit more realistic than a bad LSD trip. And that consistency comes about via internal causality - one thing leads to the next - both in the worldbuilding phase and the actual run of play. Real world: Cause: I declare my character casting a fireball. Effect: I roll some damage dice (along with maybe an aiming roll depending on system), add 'em up, and the DM does some arithmetic to her monsters' remaining h.p. totals. ([I]I-the-player don't hear the goblins screaming[/I]) Game world: Cause: Amelia Xana casts a spell using the requisite components, motions and utterances that she has been taught to use. Effect: a small bead shoots from her hand and explodes among some goblins, killing most and leaving the few screaming survivors in a world o' hurt. ([I]Amelia doesn't hear the rolling dice[/I]) Call it garbage if you like but your calling of it doesn't make it so. And, to play the same type of game, in fact here you're not typing real words at all; and neither am I. Oh sure, our fingers are hitting keys but nothing real comes of it; just something ephemeral on a screen, put there by interacting electrons. I can only assume the words you see on your screen after I post this will be the same as I see on mine - we have to share that mutual trust and belief. The same is true in a shared imaginary world: we have to share a mutual trust and belief that the elements of the game world are what we think they are, as presented by the DM. The words would only become truly real - as in physically existing - were we to send each other letters on paper. Lan-"even a print-screen won't make the words real without the mutual trust and belief that the electrons have put your actual words on the screen"-efan [/QUOTE]
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