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<blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 7345062" data-attributes="member: 48965">I feel like we're edging into the realm of pedantry here... but ok, I'll play along let's say &quot;overcome the challenge successfully&quot;.&nbsp; In the same way a successful roll allows the challenge of the map to be overcome by finding it in the study, success against the monster would allow it to be defeated in combatThis is avoiding the question.&nbsp; No one said they didn't have meaningful (whatever that means) options for resolution, but there is no roll that will bring about the realization of successfully beating this monster in combat in the same way that there is no roll that would successfully find the map in the study if the DM did not place it there.&nbsp; The PC's could research where the map is, cast a spell to find it,&nbsp; pay to have an augur or diviner search it's location out, talk to thieves who may be in the know about it's location and so on... and I consider those meaningful options, but feel free to explain why you may not.&nbsp; IMO it's the same way the PC's in that encounter could interact with the challenge of the monster in other ways but what they can't do (irregardless of how high they roll) is defeat it in combat because of it's pre-written stats...&nbsp; And here I'm unclear how this is any different from the map not being in the study...&nbsp; The ship cannot be attacked...plain and simple, due to what I assume was fictional positioning created by the DM.&nbsp; The map cannot be found plain and simple due to fictional positioning created by the DM.&nbsp; Both scenarios offer a plethora of alternate ways to deal with their respective challenge but I find it hard to discern why one is stopping or hindering player agency and the other is not...</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Imaro, post: 7345062, member: 48965"] I feel like we're edging into the realm of pedantry here... but ok, I'll play along let's say "overcome the challenge successfully". In the same way a successful roll allows the challenge of the map to be overcome by finding it in the study, success against the monster would allow it to be defeated in combat This is avoiding the question. No one said they didn't have meaningful (whatever that means) options for resolution, but there is no roll that will bring about the realization of successfully beating this monster in combat in the same way that there is no roll that would successfully find the map in the study if the DM did not place it there. The PC's could research where the map is, cast a spell to find it, pay to have an augur or diviner search it's location out, talk to thieves who may be in the know about it's location and so on... and I consider those meaningful options, but feel free to explain why you may not. IMO it's the same way the PC's in that encounter could interact with the challenge of the monster in other ways but what they can't do (irregardless of how high they roll) is defeat it in combat because of it's pre-written stats... And here I'm unclear how this is any different from the map not being in the study... The ship cannot be attacked...plain and simple, due to what I assume was fictional positioning created by the DM. The map cannot be found plain and simple due to fictional positioning created by the DM. Both scenarios offer a plethora of alternate ways to deal with their respective challenge but I find it hard to discern why one is stopping or hindering player agency and the other is not... [/QUOTE]

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