Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7346041" data-attributes="member: 29398">Which in-game was caused by the disturbance around the attempted theft, and out-of-game was caused by - you guessed it - the disturbance around the attempted theft, as played out at the table.&nbsp; In this instance it's a direct mirror.Yes, in this case it's both the DM and Mary doing the hiding rather than just the DM - I was trying to concatenate examples of two different types of hidden elements (those hidden by the DM and those hidden by another player) into one, as I'd already gone on long enough in that post.Because Mary doesn't want the other players to take Keyes into the party just on the meta-basis of Keyes being her character; she thinks instead it'd be fun and interesting to see what happens if Keyes is presented as an NPC. (I've both done this same thing as a player and had it done in games I DM - it's not at all unheard of in our crew)In the scene I presented it's in fact Mary who's the bystander...a role she would have agreed to as part of setting this up.&nbsp; She doesn't get to do anything except watch until the scene is resolved one way or another.The only time they don't have agency is where it's kind of locked in that during their conversation in the tavern Keyes WILL try to steal from one of them; and I think you'd call that scene-framing.&nbsp; After that they've got agency all over the place: the very fate of Mary's character is in their hands, for crying out loud; though they don't yet know about the &quot;Mary's character&quot; bit.&nbsp; The only further influence the DM can have on Mary's behalf (and in this instance would intentionally wield if the situation allows) is to try to at some point frame the four characters into a situation where they are more or less alone and can talk if they want to - the bouncers throwing them all out of the tavern together is an easy option here.Lan-&quot;another simple example of player-hidden information is bringing in a PC purporting to be one class where in fact it is another&quot;-efan</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7346041, member: 29398"] Which in-game was caused by the disturbance around the attempted theft, and out-of-game was caused by - you guessed it - the disturbance around the attempted theft, as played out at the table. In this instance it's a direct mirror. Yes, in this case it's both the DM and Mary doing the hiding rather than just the DM - I was trying to concatenate examples of two different types of hidden elements (those hidden by the DM and those hidden by another player) into one, as I'd already gone on long enough in that post. Because Mary doesn't want the other players to take Keyes into the party just on the meta-basis of Keyes being her character; she thinks instead it'd be fun and interesting to see what happens if Keyes is presented as an NPC. (I've both done this same thing as a player and had it done in games I DM - it's not at all unheard of in our crew) In the scene I presented it's in fact Mary who's the bystander...a role she would have agreed to as part of setting this up. She doesn't get to do anything except watch until the scene is resolved one way or another. The only time they don't have agency is where it's kind of locked in that during their conversation in the tavern Keyes WILL try to steal from one of them; and I think you'd call that scene-framing. After that they've got agency all over the place: the very fate of Mary's character is in their hands, for crying out loud; though they don't yet know about the "Mary's character" bit. The only further influence the DM can have on Mary's behalf (and in this instance would intentionally wield if the situation allows) is to try to at some point frame the four characters into a situation where they are more or less alone and can talk if they want to - the bouncers throwing them all out of the tavern together is an easy option here. Lan-"another simple example of player-hidden information is bringing in a PC purporting to be one class where in fact it is another"-efan [/QUOTE]

Verification