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<blockquote data-quote="chaochou" data-source="post: 7346437" data-attributes="member: 99817">From my point of view, it's not that I don't give credence to it. Rather, I see it as a fairly banal statement that sets a boundary which in reality nothing ever actually reaches.'Play' which breaches the Czege principle looks like this:Player 1: I need cash, so I steal a load of cash from the dragon, but now the dragon is mad at me so I kill it.No mechanical resolution, no external input. Just player-side resolution of player-side problems. In other words, it's just daydreaming.D&amp;D play often looks like this:GM: You need cash. It's rumoured there's dragon sitting on a big pile of treasure in the caves.Here The GM presupposes the character goal (player agency = dead) as well as the method of resolving it (player agency = buried). We assume that game mechanics will resolve the action, although often they are extremely weak to the point of acting as a limit on players but not on the GM (player agency = laughable).A player-driven game will more likely look like this:Player: I need cash, and there's dragon sitting on a big pile of treasure in the caves.Here the player defines their goal and solution, but it doesn't breach the Czege principle, as nothing is resolved. We assume a series of more detailed action propositions will be made, resolved though the game mechanics, with robust controls on the GMs power to counteract the dice.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="chaochou, post: 7346437, member: 99817"] From my point of view, it's not that I don't give credence to it. Rather, I see it as a fairly banal statement that sets a boundary which in reality nothing ever actually reaches. 'Play' which breaches the Czege principle looks like this: Player 1: I need cash, so I steal a load of cash from the dragon, but now the dragon is mad at me so I kill it. No mechanical resolution, no external input. Just player-side resolution of player-side problems. In other words, it's just daydreaming. D&D play often looks like this: GM: You need cash. It's rumoured there's dragon sitting on a big pile of treasure in the caves. Here The GM presupposes the character goal (player agency = dead) as well as the method of resolving it (player agency = buried). We assume that game mechanics will resolve the action, although often they are extremely weak to the point of acting as a limit on players but not on the GM (player agency = laughable). A player-driven game will more likely look like this: Player: I need cash, and there's dragon sitting on a big pile of treasure in the caves. Here the player defines their goal and solution, but it doesn't breach the Czege principle, as nothing is resolved. We assume a series of more detailed action propositions will be made, resolved though the game mechanics, with robust controls on the GMs power to counteract the dice. [/QUOTE]

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