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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 7348573" data-attributes="member: 82106">What 'causation', can you (or me or anyone) describe why magical fire is affected by being underwater? Fires don't burn underwater because water denies them oxygen, but magical fire doesn't (perhaps, nobody knows) use oxygen. If it does, then would a fireball work in an atmosphere lacking oxygen? Would it work in a vacuum? I mean, really, there's some consistency here?No, there's no 'causality' involved, there's a TROPE. I'm not saying the trope doesn't loosely originate in the observation that water puts out fires (note that even in the real world there are things which burn underwater). Its just a convention. And here's my issue with relying on these conventions as the basis of how you STEER the narrative; how does anyone really know what they are? I mean, some of them are pretty basic, like gravity, or that people need air, etc. Even so these can cause problems sometimes because we have different understandings of HOW they work, and why. When it comes to magic fire underwater all bets are off. All the player can do is either ask, or hope it works how they need it to work.Now, if you steer the narrative on the basis of dramatic need and player agenda, you don't have this problem. Yes, you still deal with fictional positioning to some extent, but now you have a strong guide as to how it should work, which is basically the 'rule of cool' (which 4e explicitly states, an interesting observation as it turns out). If something furthers the goals of the game, then make it work that way (notwithstanding some reasonable degree of consistency, which is itself just an aid to figuring out what fictional positioning is going to be needed).That's my take on it anyway <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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