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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sadras" data-source="post: 7351575" data-attributes="member: 6688277">This is fair, however it is painfully obvious that the two camps define player agency differently and this is what seems to be causing the disconnect in the debate. @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=23751" target="_blank">Maxperson</a>, @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=29398" target="_blank">Lanefan</a> @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6785785" target="_blank">hawkeyefan</a> and others (including myself) have not hidden the fact that player authorial control is limited in our games, we just do not equate player agency with authorial control over the setting.Step 0 is agreeing to the definition of agencyand authorial powerAs a first step, I propose for the sake of the debate that @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=42582" target="_blank">pemerton</a>'s camp (i) Defines player agency as the ability to declare action declarations only and NOT exercise authorial power (again just for the sake of the debate);The second step, is for @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=29398" target="_blank">Lanefan</a>'s camp to (ii) Acknowledge that due to the DM's authorial power, his/her NPCs have greater agency (able to declare a greater number of actions) than the PC's. This point seems like a fairly obvious one to accept.Finally, the resultant conclusion being (iii) If the authorial power of the players is increased, then by the acknowledgement of (ii) above, player agency would be increased. i.e. Players with authorial power naturally have a larger degree of player agency than players that have a limited or lesser degree of authorial power, because a greater number of action declarations (options) are now open to them due to the ability to establish/create elements into the fiction.EDIT: So yes, I'm willing to accept players at my table have a lesser degree of player agency than players at @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=42582" target="_blank">pemerton</a>'s table because of the greater degree of authorial power his players possess over mine. Now how much player agency his players have over mine - one can only guess. Based on what we have read @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=99817" target="_blank">chaochou</a>'s players have an even greater amount of player agency than @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=42582" target="_blank">pemerton</a>'s given the authorial power they possess. So yes, player agency varies across the board from the so-called GM-driven games to the Player-driven games.</blockquote>

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