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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 7351673" data-attributes="member: 23751">Yes you do.  It might take .0001 second, but you sit around until you all imagine the fiction that the declaration creates.  The fiction comes after the declaration and nothing can progress forward without it.Playing the game involves using the wand inside the fiction.  Without that in fiction use, there is no mechanic that is used.You keep repeating this as if being social prevents cause and effect.  If I walk up to someone and call him names, that's a social(or antisocial) cause that will generally have the effect of pissing that person off.Right, but we aren't using the invented definition that you use.  In your invented definition, sure, there's less agency.  In the actual definition, player agency doesn't involve being able to alter the content without some sort of set ability to do so, like a wish or rock to mud or something.  Your definition is basically player agency + DM agency in the hands of players.No it would not.  At least not automatically.  The DM is obligated to be as neutral as possible with his rulings.  That's part of the social contract.  If the DM is only doing what he thinks is fun, he is violating the social contract, being an asshat of a bad DM, and probably railroading the players, which is the opposite of what we are talking about.First, they can do it because the players decide what they do, not me.  Second, and this is very important, it doesn't matter in the slightest whether they find that map or not.  If they find it, great.  If they don't find it, great.  There are other options they could take to find out that information, and I am often surprised by the ideas that they come up with.  Maybe the decide to go find a seer.  Maybe they look for a guide that knows the area inside and out.  Who knows?  Not me.  That's up to them.This is the real red herring here.  You keep trying to convince us that just because the DM can be an asshat and railroad the game any way he wants, that he will.....and to the point where it's just a choose your own adventure.  I don't know what kind of horrible gaming experience you had in the past with this style of game play, but it's not a part of my game or the games of other people here in this discussion.  The decisions are not about what the DM finds to be fun, or even about what the DM wants.  He's there to make reasonable, neutral and fair decisions.  If he does that, the game will often go in directions that maybe he didn't want it to go, but oh well, the DM doesn't always get what he wants.Dude.  We've been telling you for a dozen pages how it's not like that at all, and how it isn't like that.  If you don't understand it by now, our telling you another time isn't going to help.</blockquote>

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