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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7352102" data-attributes="member: 29398">Now this is a very interesting approach.4e D&D and (from what I can tell) some of the 'indie' games referenced in this thread have an underlying philosophy of 'go where the action is'.  The DM is expected to frame dramatic scenes and the players are expected to deal with these scenes via means appropriate to their characters. Yet here we have a player who would rather use exploration and wise information gathering in order to go where the action isn't; in effect mitigating or sometimes entirely denying the DM the opportunity to frame these dramatic scenes as long as doing so allows character goals to be met, missions accomplished, etc.This to me is an important form of player agency that is entirely denied by 'go where the action is'.  I rather badly waved at this idea a long way upthread; I'll try again here, using the example from  [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] 's game where the PCs were looking for a reliquary, and met some angels en route that showed them the way to get there.  As written, the PCs conversed with the angels after which pemerton-as-GM went where the action is and framed the scene in the reliquary; and things proceeded from there. (note this might not be the best example to use but it's one I can remember the gist of without having to dig around)A player using  [MENTION=23935]Nagol[/MENTION] 's approach loses out on gobs of agency here: - s/he doesn't get the opportunity to explore the approaches to and surroundings of the reliquary before arriving at the drama; which means - - s/he doesn't get a chance to explore the area around the reliquary to determine whether there's more than one possible approach or exit - - s/he doesn't get an opportunity to pre-scout the reliquary itself via stealth or scrying or whatever other means might be available in order to assess its occupants, threats, hazards, etc. - - because of this lack of knowledge s/he isn't able to mitigate potential risks or prepare for a potential encounter via pre-casting spells, downing potions, or whatever other means might be available - before all this, s/he also loses out on any opportunity to explore whatever might lie between the angel encounter site and the reliquary - by bypassing this the GM has arbitrarily decided there's nothing there of relevance rather than allowing the players to find out for themselvesIn short, there's no opportunity given for the players to force the GM to change his initial framing of the reliquary scene from what it ended up being; or delay it until more information could be gathered.Now pemerton's players are probably fine with this as it's what they're used to: cut to the action and skip the rest.  But I wonder if they even realize how much agency they're giving up in the process?Lanefan</blockquote>

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