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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 7352143" data-attributes="member: 23751">So you say that isn't what you meant by adversarial game, and then posted examples if it being like I said.&nbsp; There is no competitive element built into D&amp;D between the players and the DM.&nbsp; It's not at all one vs. the other in any way.&nbsp; You are describing PvP, and It's really PvE.If a DM bragged about his PC body count to me, I wouldn't play in that game, because he couldn't be trusted to act fairly.&nbsp; Winning against the players is too important to him.&nbsp; The same if they bragged about building killer dungeons.&nbsp; Fun trash talk is not competitive at all.&nbsp; It's just having a good time.&nbsp; Building PCs for tactics, etc. is competitive, but not against the DM.&nbsp; It's against the environment.D&amp;D was not designed to be the DM vs. the players.&nbsp; It was designed as players vs. the game world, with the DM as the one who sets up the game world challenges for the enjoyment of the players.&nbsp; That's not trash talk.&nbsp; That's deception by DM to the players in an out of game adversarial way, and is another sign of a horrible DM, and one that I wouldn't play with again.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 7352143, member: 23751"] So you say that isn't what you meant by adversarial game, and then posted examples if it being like I said. There is no competitive element built into D&D between the players and the DM. It's not at all one vs. the other in any way. You are describing PvP, and It's really PvE. If a DM bragged about his PC body count to me, I wouldn't play in that game, because he couldn't be trusted to act fairly. Winning against the players is too important to him. The same if they bragged about building killer dungeons. Fun trash talk is not competitive at all. It's just having a good time. Building PCs for tactics, etc. is competitive, but not against the DM. It's against the environment. D&D was not designed to be the DM vs. the players. It was designed as players vs. the game world, with the DM as the one who sets up the game world challenges for the enjoyment of the players. That's not trash talk. That's deception by DM to the players in an out of game adversarial way, and is another sign of a horrible DM, and one that I wouldn't play with again. [/QUOTE]

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