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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7352209" data-attributes="member: 42582">Look, I'm probably the wrong person to ask. I like that way of playing. Eg if less GM control over the direction of the story is a drawback, then yes it has that drawback. But GM control over the direction of the story isn't something I'm personally looking for in RPGing?What drawbacks do you have in mind?EDIT: OK, so this post suggested one drawback that you have in mind:Well, most RPGs that I'm familiar with try to deal with this in character creation, and also in the general conventions for play that they establish.Part of PC build in BW is establishing your PC's Beliefs. It is understood that these will be tested and challenged in play. Part of PC build in Cortex+ Heroic is establishing milestones. It is understood that these will require engaging in heroic derring-do in order to be met. Part of PC build in 4e is creating a PC with a class and race and alignment that establish a certain orientation towards heroic fantasy adventuring. And you can't earn XP except by engaging in such activity.In my 4e game the PCs were searching for a map to the Soul Abattoir. But the players understood that the Soul Abattoir is an epic-tier thing - going there = fighting Torog, a god. So there is equally an understanding that the map is not itself a focus of play: it is more like a plot device, that will emerge in due course - and when it does, the choices will be (i) now that they can go there, do they?, (ii) if so, how do they get there?, (iii) if they go there, how will they beat Torog?, and (iv) if they beat Torog, what do they do once he is beaten? In my own game, they went there, making a bargain with some devils to help with that; they did beat Torog, and once he was beaten (a) they sent the freed souls to the Raven Queen rather than Vecna, and (b) one of the PCs - a paladin of Moradin - took on Torog's portfolio of pain, torture and imprisonment.I'm sure it's possible to run 4e in other ways, but as I've experienced it has this strong pacing dimension to it, which is driven by the steep levelling curve that is part of the "tiers of play". Some options simply don't open up in a meaningful way until the PCs reach the appropriate level, and once they do the interesting question is not "can we?" but "do we?"In my BW game there have been two searches that I can remember - for a mace, and for a vessel to catch blood. I've mentioned both of them extensively in this thread, and so won't repeat in this post but am happy to do if requested to. What made the mace search dramatic was that (in the fiction) it was the first return to the ruined tower since the brother was possessed by a balrog 14 years earlier; and (at the table) it was the first time in play the PC was in the ruined tower. What made the vessle search dramatic was that if all the blood is lost, the PC can't fulfill the command given to him by the dark naga that has dominatd him.There is nothing to stop a BW player establishing as a Belief for his/her PC "I will live a boring but satisfying life" - but the player has to understand that the GM is going to frame situations that will put this to the test, that being the whole point of the game.As for the difference between framing in response to player-authored Beliefs, action declarations, etc; and working from pre-authored notes - the mace and vessel example , the angel feather example, the Soul Abattoir example, the example of travelling down to Enlil to look for alien artefacts on sale in a marketplace - all should be enough to illustrate the point. The player moves establish the focus of the action, and the GM is responding to and going back-and-forth with the players' cues, rather than the GM telling the players something that s/he thought might be interesting independently of all that.</blockquote>

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