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<blockquote data-quote="Nagol" data-source="post: 7354186" data-attributes="member: 23935">It could easily be secret back story because although you've framed the scene of the PCs trying to hunt down the otyugh, you know there isn't one.&nbsp; The PCs are meant to find &lt;insert something of great personal relevance to one PC&gt; in the sewers -- the stated purpose is just a rationale to get hem in the appropriate setting for the reveal. Absolutely this is secret backstory.&nbsp; You assigned goals and pressure points that the players are unaware of that should guide their interactions during the scene.&nbsp; That the players can discover the story is immaterial&nbsp; Players can discover almost any part of secret backstory in many games.&nbsp; But, the PCs can't push on his pathological fear of spiders, his medical debt, his doting on his pretty niece, or any other personality tic they can dream up because you've already assigned back story to the NPC.&nbsp;I don't think setting up hidden or initially secret victory conditions is bad because I don't think secret backstory is bad.&nbsp; I think setting up &quot;auto-fail&quot; gotchas that are not well advertised (such as 'any Intimidation attempt will auto-fail and cause other bad things to happen...' are bad regardless of style in action.&nbsp; For player-led games, the PCs also &quot;discover&quot; secrets in the NPCs that they can leverage... they are just the instigators of establishing those secret while playing the scene or they were established in a prior scene and that people remembered.There is no 'bad' or 'should' here.&nbsp; There are styles at play.&nbsp; One of those styles takes advantage of world building as part of prep; another does not.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Nagol, post: 7354186, member: 23935"] It could easily be secret back story because although you've framed the scene of the PCs trying to hunt down the otyugh, you know there isn't one. The PCs are meant to find <insert something of great personal relevance to one PC> in the sewers -- the stated purpose is just a rationale to get hem in the appropriate setting for the reveal. Absolutely this is secret backstory. You assigned goals and pressure points that the players are unaware of that should guide their interactions during the scene. That the players can discover the story is immaterial Players can discover almost any part of secret backstory in many games. But, the PCs can't push on his pathological fear of spiders, his medical debt, his doting on his pretty niece, or any other personality tic they can dream up because you've already assigned back story to the NPC. I don't think setting up hidden or initially secret victory conditions is bad because I don't think secret backstory is bad. I think setting up "auto-fail" gotchas that are not well advertised (such as 'any Intimidation attempt will auto-fail and cause other bad things to happen...' are bad regardless of style in action. For player-led games, the PCs also "discover" secrets in the NPCs that they can leverage... they are just the instigators of establishing those secret while playing the scene or they were established in a prior scene and that people remembered. There is no 'bad' or 'should' here. There are styles at play. One of those styles takes advantage of world building as part of prep; another does not. [/QUOTE]

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