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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ilbranteloth" data-source="post: 7354597" data-attributes="member: 6778044">But player agency doesn’t mean they have full control of everything. Whether the discovery was pre-authored or not doesn’t really have anything to do with player agency. The players are not being restricted in their choices or actions. Just like I can go get in my car and go left or right. My free will has not been altered. If I come to a red light it still hasn’t altered my free will or agency, it’s just a circumstance that provides a decision point.It’s not a choose your own adventure because the outcome has not been predetermined. That there is something in the room may have been, but what the characters choose to do, and the results of that decision is not predetermined. Choose your own adventure books produce the same result every time you select option 1. A published adventure is like a DM prepped adventure. I’ve run Keep on the Borderlands and Tomb of Horrors dozens of times, and never had the same results, ever. Each group had their own experiences and results. Now [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] may prefer a game where the players have a greater ability to author beyond the actions and decisions of their characters, and that’s fine. But that doesn’t mean the players have more agency, just a broader part of the authoring of the story.Removing player agency would be pretermining the outcome of an encounter, not the content of the world. Such as deciding that the result of this encounter will be that the PCs will be captured. That decision can be predetermined or made on the fly.Note that this does not mean the characters can never be captured. Taking away agency: the DM decides that the characters must be captured. Initially he throws 8 well armed guards, but that doesn’t deter them. So he brings in 12 reinforcements. That still doesn’t stop them, so he brings in a wizard with a wand of hold person.Not taking away player agency (and tying into world-building): the kingdom is in the midst of a war, and bandits have been an increasing problem in the area. The Lord has ordered an increased patrol of 12 men-at-arms, 6 of them mounted, with a wizard with a wand of hold person. The PCs run afoul of the law, and find themselves surrounded by one such patrol. Due to the heightened security, escape may be risky, since it will make them outlaws, putting a bounty on their heads, dead or alive. Their agency hasn’t been altered, because they are still able to make any decision they want, although some are more risky than others. Even if they aren’t aware of the current political situation, that will become apparent in time. The important thing to understand is that in this situation the player’s agency has not been compromised, although the character’s may have been.The framework of the game, including the house or table rules, determines what the players are allowed to do or not. This is not altering agency, it is just the rules of the game. Some games have more restrictions than others.For example, the rules for high school football are different that the NFL. That’s not taking anything away from the players. They still have the same goals, and they are free to accomplish those in any manner within the framework of the rules. How they meet those goals might be altered, but within the framework of the game they still have their agency. [MENTION=23751]Maxperson[/MENTION]’s preferred approach is not “choose your own adventure” nor is it impacting player agency within the context of the game they are playing. It’s a different game than [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION]’s, with different rules and approaches, that’s all.</blockquote>

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