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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 7355362" data-attributes="member: 82106">I don't think this is a relevant concern in any game that is run remotely like I would run it. The reason is that the GM isn't using framing as a control mechanic AT ALL. It just isn't one. Its merely a way of presenting a scene that relates to what the player's want. It challenges the characters and provides both a way to advance the player's agenda, and the possibility of failure, thus putting stress on the character. If a GM is 'framing' things into a railroad, that isn't even player-centered play at all IMHO. It might possibly share some techniques, maybe, but its still a totally different kind of play.OK, the first three are definitely in the &quot;I don't generally do it this way anymore&quot; category, but I agree they can work this way. I think this is most useful in things like organized play (especially #2).I'm not sure I understand the last one. I guess games IME 'stall' when the PCs are stuck and unable to find some 'secret door' in the material the GM has prepared which lets them move forward. I'd say you won't get stuck in the most common sense of that if you don't have (at least canonical) material of this sort, and players have some agency to change the terms of the situation. I guess if the PCs get stuck, isn't it really about the only option for the GM to have some sort of deus ex machina (IE ninjas attack)?!!?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 7355362, member: 82106"] I don't think this is a relevant concern in any game that is run remotely like I would run it. The reason is that the GM isn't using framing as a control mechanic AT ALL. It just isn't one. Its merely a way of presenting a scene that relates to what the player's want. It challenges the characters and provides both a way to advance the player's agenda, and the possibility of failure, thus putting stress on the character. If a GM is 'framing' things into a railroad, that isn't even player-centered play at all IMHO. It might possibly share some techniques, maybe, but its still a totally different kind of play. OK, the first three are definitely in the "I don't generally do it this way anymore" category, but I agree they can work this way. I think this is most useful in things like organized play (especially #2). I'm not sure I understand the last one. I guess games IME 'stall' when the PCs are stuck and unable to find some 'secret door' in the material the GM has prepared which lets them move forward. I'd say you won't get stuck in the most common sense of that if you don't have (at least canonical) material of this sort, and players have some agency to change the terms of the situation. I guess if the PCs get stuck, isn't it really about the only option for the GM to have some sort of deus ex machina (IE ninjas attack)?!!? [/QUOTE]

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