Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7355492" data-attributes="member: 42582">Yes they were.Just to give a simple example: if the GM tells the players they are in the middle of a desert that stretches as far as they can see in every direction, then they are not able to declare, as actions for their PCs, that they board their boat and sail away.This has come up so many times in this thread that I should just have a bot posting my response to it!You can have a game with a high degree of player agency over the shared fiction which doesn't require the players doing anything in the course of play but delcaring actions for their PCs.There are two main components to this that I have mentioned multiple (extremely multiple) times upthread. (1) The core focus of, and material, for plauy is established by the GM by reference to player signals. (2) Player acrion declarations for their PCs are adjudicated via action resolution mechanics rather than unrevealed fictional positioning known only to the GM.That's not to say there is anything wrong with (3) the players have fiat power to introduce elements of the fiction. That is an occasional ad hoc element in my games. It is a systematic element in some systems (eg Fate, OGL Conan) and it is a more important part of some other posters RPGing than it is of mine (eg  [MENTION=99817]chaochou[/MENTION],  [MENTION=82106]AbdulAlhazred[/MENTION]). But to talk about player agency over the content of the shared fiction is not to talk particularly about (3) at all. (1) and (2) are the main game.Lanefan, I refer you to the above paragraphs in this post which are a reiteration of something that you must have already encountered (eg I would have posted it in reply to you) multiple times in this thread.EDIT:I haven't defined player agency at all - but yes, I have been interested mostly in player agency in respect of the content of the shared fiction. That's why I keep using that phrase!This claim is not true.Here's one way that a player can exercise agency in respect of the shared fiction: s/he declares an action along the lines of "I offer the bribe a guard"; then we resolve that action using whatever the mechanics are (eg Traveller's mechanics for the bribery skill; the Moldvay Basic reaction table; etc); and if the action succeeds, we now know - among other things - that the guard in question was susceptible to being bribed.That doesn't involve rewriting anything. Nor does it involve introducing something new. This is one way in which RPGs are different from cooperative storytelling games - they have action resolution mechanics to mediate the process of establishing fiction.Here's another way a player can exercise agency in respect of the shared fiction: s/he tells the GM that her PC is a fox spirit banished from the animal courts of heaven. The GM then frames a scene in which constables of hell come to the PCs in their teahouse, and declare that the PC must come with them to face judgement for violating the terms of that banishment.That doesn't involve rewriting anything. The only fiction that it introduces is backstory about the PC (when this happened in one of my campaigns, the fact that the gameworld includes animal courts in heaven was already an established part of the fiction). It is the GM who writes in the constables of hell. But they are a clear response to the backstory established by the player. The GM's introduction of them into the fiction affirms the player's agency over the content of the shared fiction.Worldbuilding, in the OP sense, is one way to establish backstory. It's not the only way. Consider the example that was just given.To say that the GM is responsible for managing the backstory - as occurs in the example of constables of hell coming to take the PC off to face trial - is not to say that the GM is expected to pre-author setting material (i) independently of player signals about PC dramatic needs, or (ii) so as to use it as a secret element of fictional positioning in the adjudication of action declarations.</blockquote>

Verification