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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ilbranteloth" data-source="post: 7355618" data-attributes="member: 6778044">First, setting up the parameters for the action is different than authoring the fiction.Second, I was describing a specific type of player that clearly defines player agency different than you. I didn't say that I thought the DM didn't have any influence, and nor did I explicitly say they didn't. What their definition of player agency seems to indicate is that they don't want the DM to introduce new elements to the fiction itself. Yes, I know that even in reacting to the actions of the PCs to play the part of the NPCs and monsters does this, and the setting up of the dungeon itself does too. And in past discussions both you and I have pointed these facts out.The DM obviously exerts more influence in this type of game during social interactions, but most of these types of players focus almost entirely on the exploration aspect of the game (which involves combat), in the wilderness and/or dungeon. Overarching plots, if there is one, tend to be of the "threat to civilization" type where the villains are holed up in their lair, apparently content to let the PCs come in and foil their plans. A Keep on the Borderlands rather than a Castle Ravenloft approach.All of this, of course, was in the context of pointing out that player agency means very different things depending on the context of the game itself.This is one of the flaws in the post you originally referenced in my opinion. While the Moldvay rule book doesn't have wilderness rules per se, the Moldvay Basic Set was packaged with B2. He obviously didn't know that when he picked up the game to play it. From my perspective, the rules encompass what comes in the box, because that package was designed to give beginning players and DMs everything they need to know to run the game. And in that context, finding the dungeon - the exploration - is an important part of the game. The module spends quite a bit of space describing the keep and its purpose, and then wilderness adventuring to the degree that the DM is instructed to add their own material to the wilderness, including a specific location for their own dungeon. Note that it doesn't leave them blank space within the dungeon itself, but that the DMs creative input is directed toward the wilderness. So my expectation would be that the game would start outside the dungeon in question if I'm playing Moldvay basic. And indeed, nearly every "B" module released in the Moldvay basic era does not start at the door of a dungeon, there is exploration required first.</blockquote>

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