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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 7358842" data-attributes="member: 23751">That's still no different than killing the orc, though.  When killing an orc, you also get "retries".  If you miss(fail to kill the orc), you can retry until you kill it or something else happens to prevent success.  You are comparing success against the orc on the first try, with failure of the skill attempt on the first try, rather than comparing success on the first attempts to both.  AC and HP are not set with an orc, either.  The DM has the option to alter both via rolling for hit points rather than using the flat number listed, or by adding removing armor pieces/magic to the orc.  So those two variables are similar to the DM setting the DC for the skill attempt.</blockquote>