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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 7359096" data-attributes="member: 6785785">Sure, and I think that is fine. I tend to keep a lot of things in mind, but remain flexible based on how they come about in play. But there are other elements that I certainly do decide ahead of time. I do commit prior to play. My point is that this need not violate any level of player agency. This is where I think it depends on the nature of what is happening. The PC searching a room for a bowl where one conceivably may be? Sure....make a Perception or Search check and let's see. Or, more likely, sure, there's a bowl on a table near the bed. The PC searching the kitchen for a map that they've come to the keep to find? To me, that's an issue. It's the solution to the problem that's been established, and has likely been given much more consideration than the presence of a bowl in a bedroom. So the players abusing their ability to foster the fictional elements of the scene by simply declaring that something may be present in the room. I don't think that the Czege Principle is exactly what this is, but it's close enough. Provoking a response to what? You've clearly given a decision point to them. So they have certain options available to them. This limits their options. Now, this is likely not an issue given that the GM is supposed to be basing these decision points based on player want/character interest. But my point is that doesn't mean there is not a limit on player agency. A specific problem of some kind is presented. It must be addressed. So the GM is indeed limiting their agency. They have to deal with this thing in front of them, and not go off on some kind of side quest that piqued their interest. My secret backstory is the establishment of the shared fiction, which speaks to the PCs' dramatic needs. It doesn't dictate options. I'm going off of your descriptions. I am not familiar with Burning Wheel and a few of the other games you are advocating. I am familiar with other games that would be considered story now. But the result of the action does establish the player's desired thing into the fiction. So yes, you are advocating for that. I suppose the word "fiat" being added here is key....yes, I know you are not advocating for players to add elements to the story without restriction. But you've been talking about it throughout the thread in the course of action declaration, so that's what I am talking about. I disagree. I don't think that people were lying when they said they found the way you described their playstyle as insulting. What they were arguing was not your description in general, because it applies to just about any RPG in one way or another....but it was your insistence that this was the sole characteristic of their style. "The GM reading a story to the players" is a dismissive description of an RPG. Again, it may be useful if you can answer if you've been swayed in any way. If there are any decent answers to the question you posed in the OP. What is worldbuilding for? If you reply to me, I'd hope you would not cut this question out a third time. I think it'd genuinely be interesting to see your take on it after hundreds of pages of this thread. Certainly there must have been some take away for you?</blockquote>

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