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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 7368128" data-attributes="member: 82106">These are all cogent points. I think, to perhaps take something like [MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION]'s viewpoint for a moment, that you could recontextualize what he is talking about in terms of player agenda and goals. That is to say, he has a fixed primary goal as a player, which is to be a bit part of a much larger story. His preference is years long arcs of playing low level PCs in some largely pre-defined world where most of the important things which are going on have little or nothing at all to do with his character. Thus in important ways he's really spectating. He's engaged in the sense that his character exists in the world and 'does things' (perhaps exciting and dangerous things we would assume) and thus has some kind of 'stake', which may be reinforced by character backstory, which if not provided exclusively by the player is certainly at least vetted by and probably mostly written by the player. You can simply see this as an overarching agenda. If [MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION] played in one of your games he would advocate for the GM to explain to him the history and complex backstory associated with persons, places, and things which were encountered within the scene frames and desire to explore each one in great detail as the opportunity arose. There might also be a 'primary quest' driving this in a more specific direction, and possibly 'side quests' that basically involve some exploration activity and backstory revelation that isn't directly involved in the 'primary quest'. These quests may also be more limited than some of the agendas that PCs often have in Story Now, which are often about core beliefs and values which drive them forward to the end of the campaign. You can see how 4e actually is built around this kind of model to an extent. There is a fairly significant cosmological backstory, which the GM can flesh out as he chooses, and which is designed to hang adventure hooks off of. The game also provides major and minor quests, which are ideally suited to providing short-mid term PC goals, and can simply be used as a set of 'breadcrumbs' to pull the characters forward in an exploratory mode of play. Its also true it espouses 'get to the action', which is more of a Story Now concept, as well as 'say yes', but I don't think the designers were fully sold on one fixed game concept (which may be one of 4e's issues in and of itself).</blockquote>

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