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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 7374128" data-attributes="member: 23751">Success as you described it is not finality in any way.  You told me when I said that the player would have the item needed to save his brother that it still needed to be enchanted and one other thing I can't remember.  That's not finality.  That's exactly like me saying, "I want something to help me dig holes in my garden." as one of my goals, and you handing me a chunk of iron and saying that success is finality, even though I still need a blacksmith to make a shovel head out of it and a handle to attach.  Finality is a shovel.  Finality is the item to free the brother.  Heck, even failure wasn't final since now the player had a curse to contend with.They succeeded in something that said that Halika can't beat us to the tower.  If it can be later put in jeopardy by a trip through the catacombs, not only is it not final, but it's not truly successful, either.  To be both successful and final, Halika can't make it to the tower ahead of them no matter what they do.I know you were talking about the opening scene. That's why I said "outside of the very first moment..."  So how do they get to the next important scene.  Do they just get transported to wherever, or do they travel there?  If they are just transported(whether through skipping the travel portion or however), who decides where those places are?My way allows for players to exercise agency over wherever they go.  Your way would be considered a railroad since the players had absolutely no choice in whether or not they went to the bazaar.  You decided their movements for them.I didn't say "best method", rather, what I said was that the player gets to decide how best to further his goal.  What he decides may or may not truly be the best way, but the player has made that value judgment, not you.  He decides whether to go to the bazaar, a wizard, or another way.  For the rest, it all depends on the circumstances of the situation.  As one example, the DC for finding a merchant(if a roll is even required) with a helpful item will be much higher in a mid sized town than in a large capitol city.They are engaging in that goal by the very act of searching out the item and interacting with the various NPCs in the game to achieve finding the item.  It doesn't have to be a single all or nothing roll in order to be engaging in the goal.By the very act of declaring, "I will find an item useful in saving my brother before I leave town.", the player has established that the item be useful in that goal.  Therefore, any item that is of use in achieving that goal would qualify as a useful item.  He doesn't need to declare anything more specific than that in order for the item to be useful.I've never said that it was, so I don't know why you keep repeating it to me.  I've explained the difference many times to  you.Yeeeah, that sort of thing doesn't happen.  What's you next suggestion for how we run things?  is the door stuck?  Is it stuck with jam?  Is it stuck with peanut butter?Why do you consistently offer up ridiculous examples and then try to attribute those to our playstyle?I was asking you which it was.Sure it is.  If the DM is the one doing the authoring, then it doesn't matter if he authored it in advance or on the spot.  Adding in the players doesn't change that fact, since it's still the DM doing the authoring.  If I know there is a Raven Queen devotee and that he is likely to play for guidance, what's the difference in pre-authoring something and authoring the identical thing on the spot?  If I know the player can summon and control wolves and I know he will eventually use the ability, then what's the difference if I prepare ahead of time that one that responds is dark grey except for the silver muzzle or if I make the same identical thing up on the spot?Nobody is talking about never having to improvise and pre-authoring everything.  As I point out above, though, there is a lot I can know ahead of time and prepare for that will have no difference when it arrives, than if I improvised it.So there are mechanics to determine what color the wolves are, or what the answer to a successful or failed guidance might be?</blockquote>

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