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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7377548" data-attributes="member: 29398">Other than the reference to 'PC dramatic needs' this could apply to a typical DM-driven game as well.Something these guys seem to be (intentionally?) ignoring is that beyond the dramatic needs of any individual PC there's also the dramatic needs of the game/campaign as a whole.  The sense seems to be that the PCs are bigger than the game...that the whole world revolves around them...where I prefer both as player and DM to see the PCs as small fish in a big ocean full of lots of bigger fish that are nearly all very hungry.  I also see PCs as being more temporary than their party, and it's the party's story I'm after.Interesting.The goal of most of our crew most of the time is just to have some fun at the table.  Occasionally one of us will play a truly goal-oriented character...until the rest of the party gets fed up with it and either runs it out or just stops listening to it...but it's not that common.  Sometimes there's a temporary goal, either achieved quickly or abandoned as unattainable, but rarely if ever is there anything campaign-long.I've had highly goal-oriented players in my game in the past, and what I found in general was that they also took the whole thing far too seriously for my tastes.That said, the party as a whole can and does have goals both short and long term.In-game: depth, intrigue, choices, options, alternatives, sometimes confusion.  At-table: choices, options, alternatives, campaign length, sometimes frustration.  And in this case I see both in-character confusion and at-table frustration to be positives, in moderation. Not on the feather - I've already blown that one.  But the opal at the jewel merchant?  The ceremonial sword at the merchant of fine things?  The book of prophesy at the bookseller's?Yeah, I can keep thinking these up all day. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Of course...and I think that more or less encompasses most players out there.  Add to that the players who simply don't see it as thier place to influence setting details related to their PCs except as rules allow (cf 1e stronghold-building) and that puts goal-oriented fiction-bending players in the severe minority, I think. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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