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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7378227" data-attributes="member: 29398">If neither I nor the players acknowledge their existence then yes, they might as well not be there.It's not an &quot;alternative mode of agency&quot;, it is their agency.At some point.&nbsp; Nothing says it has to happen right away, just that at some point it has to happen, or at least try to.From a DM-driven standpoint this could be achieved by sending the party into B2 and simply adding an item into the cultists' treasure that gives protection from demons. (thus when the confrontation later occurs the balrog's powers are migitated or blocked, though the possessed brother can still beat him up conventionally)As this is a nigh-inevitable outcome of any spacefaring game, no problem meeting that goal in any game system. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Situationally dependent, but on the face of it this might just be an example of bad DMing.Yep.&nbsp; This to me is the &quot;alternative form of agency&quot;, and even in a DM-driven game can sometimes have a function - usually when dealing with off-screen details the DM doesn't want to bother with such as determining each inhabitant of the PC's home village.&nbsp; But that type of agency is not a part of the normal run of play, and thus is meaningless in that context.That doesn't restrict their agency at all!&nbsp; They declared an attempted action (thus exercising their agency) and were told that action failed.Yep.&nbsp; Just like reality, in that regard - if I go to the mall and look for a hardware store, no matter what I do if the mall doesn't have a hardware store I ain't gonna find one there.Side note: thanks to&nbsp;&nbsp; [MENTION=23751]Maxperson[/MENTION] and&nbsp;&nbsp; [MENTION=6778044]Ilbranteloth[/MENTION] for saving me loads of typing these last few days. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Lanefan</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7378227, member: 29398"] If neither I nor the players acknowledge their existence then yes, they might as well not be there. It's not an "alternative mode of agency", it is their agency. At some point. Nothing says it has to happen right away, just that at some point it has to happen, or at least try to. From a DM-driven standpoint this could be achieved by sending the party into B2 and simply adding an item into the cultists' treasure that gives protection from demons. (thus when the confrontation later occurs the balrog's powers are migitated or blocked, though the possessed brother can still beat him up conventionally) As this is a nigh-inevitable outcome of any spacefaring game, no problem meeting that goal in any game system. :) Situationally dependent, but on the face of it this might just be an example of bad DMing. Yep. This to me is the "alternative form of agency", and even in a DM-driven game can sometimes have a function - usually when dealing with off-screen details the DM doesn't want to bother with such as determining each inhabitant of the PC's home village. But that type of agency is not a part of the normal run of play, and thus is meaningless in that context. That doesn't restrict their agency at all! They declared an attempted action (thus exercising their agency) and were told that action failed. Yep. Just like reality, in that regard - if I go to the mall and look for a hardware store, no matter what I do if the mall doesn't have a hardware store I ain't gonna find one there. Side note: thanks to [MENTION=23751]Maxperson[/MENTION] and [MENTION=6778044]Ilbranteloth[/MENTION] for saving me loads of typing these last few days. :) Lanefan [/QUOTE]

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