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<blockquote data-quote="Aenghus" data-source="post: 7378987" data-attributes="member: 2656">I can think of many, many interests and goals that require DM help to achieve. IMO the set of such goals is significantly larger than the set of goals that don't require DM assistance. (Both being infinite, but DM-required goals are a bigger infinity).Settling for smaller, meaner goals is certainly less trouble for the GM, and less work. Unless the player deliberately avoids any expectations for the consequences of their modest secret goals, it's entirely possible that the campaign or GM will crush them inadvertently. Fundamentally, if I have a character with significant goals,&nbsp; I want the GM involved, I want him or her to give a damn, and I want the goal to mean something in the context of the campaign. If they can't deliver I can always vote with my feet.Edit: whatever goals someone wants are fine, whatever their size, so long as they are appropriate to the circumstances. Your drunk dwarf example sure seems smaller and meaner, so to speak.I've seen drunk PCs get hit with a variety of mechanical penalties (and sometimes bonuses) for their drunkeness. I've seen such PCs voted out of the group before. If penalties and social fallout make the character less fun to play, you might need to negotiate with the GM to keep the character playable. And we are back to needing GM cooperation to play the player goal.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Aenghus, post: 7378987, member: 2656"] I can think of many, many interests and goals that require DM help to achieve. IMO the set of such goals is significantly larger than the set of goals that don't require DM assistance. (Both being infinite, but DM-required goals are a bigger infinity). Settling for smaller, meaner goals is certainly less trouble for the GM, and less work. Unless the player deliberately avoids any expectations for the consequences of their modest secret goals, it's entirely possible that the campaign or GM will crush them inadvertently. Fundamentally, if I have a character with significant goals, I want the GM involved, I want him or her to give a damn, and I want the goal to mean something in the context of the campaign. If they can't deliver I can always vote with my feet. Edit: whatever goals someone wants are fine, whatever their size, so long as they are appropriate to the circumstances. Your drunk dwarf example sure seems smaller and meaner, so to speak. I've seen drunk PCs get hit with a variety of mechanical penalties (and sometimes bonuses) for their drunkeness. I've seen such PCs voted out of the group before. If penalties and social fallout make the character less fun to play, you might need to negotiate with the GM to keep the character playable. And we are back to needing GM cooperation to play the player goal. [/QUOTE]

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