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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 7380088" data-attributes="member: 23751">Of course it's an agenda.&nbsp; Go to a meeting sometime and see what little things are on the agenda.&nbsp; It can as simple as get a cup of coffee.&nbsp; Also, while those questions do show character, character is not an agenda, so I'm not sure why you are putting those questions here.So first, I didn't say it was his only goal.&nbsp; Second, while it does take a DM playing the game, it does not require DM help to accomplish.&nbsp; Even if there is no wine, I am still showing his personality and goals by making the attempt, and those goals are being addressed by the DM when he informs me that the tavern is out of wine.&nbsp; I don't need to be successful for it to be addressed and for my goal to come out, and the DM is forced to address it when I state I am looking for fine wine at the tavern.&nbsp; It isn't as if it's an option for him.&nbsp; Nor do I need his help in bringing my goal out in the game.It's a given for my example.&nbsp; Maybe they are in the south, east, west, equator.&nbsp; It doesn't matter.&nbsp; The setting will have barbarians established in it somewhere.&nbsp; As for framing, I am forcing the framing to happen by stating to the DM that I am going north(or east, west, etc.) to take over the barbarians.&nbsp; The DM has to respond.&nbsp; As with the wine example, he has no choice by to address my goal.&nbsp; Now, as for your bad DM examples, those need not apply.&nbsp; As I said to [MENTION=2656]Aenghus[/MENTION], bad DMs are bad and any game they run is going to be bupkis.&nbsp; Assuming that the DM is not bad, I'm not going to encounter no boats every time I look for one, or every pass blocked by snow, etc.&nbsp; Why do you guys persist in constantly giving examples of bad DMing as if they actually mean something to the discussion?No, it's not just a story being told.&nbsp; Giving them the option of which way to go at an intersection invovles more than just story.&nbsp; You also persist in &quot;overlooking&quot; that during the journey to the giants, things will happen that will aid them in their ultimate goal of defeating said giants, so it's not just &quot;writing down stuff about intersections and gems&quot;.How much do you require to be said in advance of a journey about what happens at the end of it?&nbsp; Having to play guess the event and prepare for it for all the possible events that could happen seems tedious and would waste a ton of time.Why?&nbsp; There are tons of ways to prevent or greatly minimize the chances of that.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 7380088, member: 23751"] Of course it's an agenda. Go to a meeting sometime and see what little things are on the agenda. It can as simple as get a cup of coffee. Also, while those questions do show character, character is not an agenda, so I'm not sure why you are putting those questions here. So first, I didn't say it was his only goal. Second, while it does take a DM playing the game, it does not require DM help to accomplish. Even if there is no wine, I am still showing his personality and goals by making the attempt, and those goals are being addressed by the DM when he informs me that the tavern is out of wine. I don't need to be successful for it to be addressed and for my goal to come out, and the DM is forced to address it when I state I am looking for fine wine at the tavern. It isn't as if it's an option for him. Nor do I need his help in bringing my goal out in the game. It's a given for my example. Maybe they are in the south, east, west, equator. It doesn't matter. The setting will have barbarians established in it somewhere. As for framing, I am forcing the framing to happen by stating to the DM that I am going north(or east, west, etc.) to take over the barbarians. The DM has to respond. As with the wine example, he has no choice by to address my goal. Now, as for your bad DM examples, those need not apply. As I said to [MENTION=2656]Aenghus[/MENTION], bad DMs are bad and any game they run is going to be bupkis. Assuming that the DM is not bad, I'm not going to encounter no boats every time I look for one, or every pass blocked by snow, etc. Why do you guys persist in constantly giving examples of bad DMing as if they actually mean something to the discussion? No, it's not just a story being told. Giving them the option of which way to go at an intersection invovles more than just story. You also persist in "overlooking" that during the journey to the giants, things will happen that will aid them in their ultimate goal of defeating said giants, so it's not just "writing down stuff about intersections and gems". How much do you require to be said in advance of a journey about what happens at the end of it? Having to play guess the event and prepare for it for all the possible events that could happen seems tedious and would waste a ton of time. Why? There are tons of ways to prevent or greatly minimize the chances of that. [/QUOTE]

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