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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7380757" data-attributes="member: 29398">From the point of view of my PC - through whose eyes I-as-player am viewing the game world - that's exactly right.From the player-at-the-table side, yes.&nbsp; But from the PC-in-the-fiction side, not in the slightest.In and of itself, no it isn't; though in hindsight it'll without doubt be a part of a bigger story.&nbsp; Kind of like a ten-game losing streak at some point during a season in which you still win the cup at the end.Depends.&nbsp; If it's a binary succeed-fail situation (e.g. either you find a secret door or you don't) then failure directly equals nothing-interesting.&nbsp; If it's a sliding-scale situation where both success and failure can come in degrees then it's sometimes possible to generate interest from failure.Sure - but that still doesn't (and IMO can't) stop me from going through the motions of trying. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />No, my repeated concern - usually expressed in silly terms but with a very serious underlying point - is that players with the power to contribute to the fiction will always ALWAYS sooner or later attempt to bend that contribution to their own unfair or unbalanced advantage, be it over other players/PCs or over the game itself; and the DM in these types of games has no means to stop it.&nbsp; Human beings are by nature competitive - that's why part of the DM's role is and always has been that of referee.That it's the DM's job to say no to things the players try that are impossible, not the player's job to limit themselves to only attempting the possible.Perhaps infinity, but who cares?&nbsp; They can still try if they want.Sure it is.&nbsp; It just arrives more frequently and (in most cases) more predictably than in AD&amp;D, and unlike AD&amp;D with its level-loss mechanics it can't be taken away later.Unless the DM houserules otherwise... This can be true of any RPG, and speaks more to the players' focus of play.&nbsp; Some play for the power-ups.&nbsp; Some play for the story.&nbsp; Many play for a bit of both.Lan-&quot;time is short or there'd be more to this&quot;-efan</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7380757, member: 29398"] From the point of view of my PC - through whose eyes I-as-player am viewing the game world - that's exactly right. From the player-at-the-table side, yes. But from the PC-in-the-fiction side, not in the slightest. In and of itself, no it isn't; though in hindsight it'll without doubt be a part of a bigger story. Kind of like a ten-game losing streak at some point during a season in which you still win the cup at the end. Depends. If it's a binary succeed-fail situation (e.g. either you find a secret door or you don't) then failure directly equals nothing-interesting. If it's a sliding-scale situation where both success and failure can come in degrees then it's sometimes possible to generate interest from failure. Sure - but that still doesn't (and IMO can't) stop me from going through the motions of trying. :) No, my repeated concern - usually expressed in silly terms but with a very serious underlying point - is that players with the power to contribute to the fiction will always ALWAYS sooner or later attempt to bend that contribution to their own unfair or unbalanced advantage, be it over other players/PCs or over the game itself; and the DM in these types of games has no means to stop it. Human beings are by nature competitive - that's why part of the DM's role is and always has been that of referee. That it's the DM's job to say no to things the players try that are impossible, not the player's job to limit themselves to only attempting the possible. Perhaps infinity, but who cares? They can still try if they want. Sure it is. It just arrives more frequently and (in most cases) more predictably than in AD&D, and unlike AD&D with its level-loss mechanics it can't be taken away later. Unless the DM houserules otherwise... This can be true of any RPG, and speaks more to the players' focus of play. Some play for the power-ups. Some play for the story. Many play for a bit of both. Lan-"time is short or there'd be more to this"-efan [/QUOTE]

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