Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7381244" data-attributes="member: 42582">[MENTION=996]Tony Vargas[/MENTION], I think your post was mostly tongue-in-cheek, but where I thought I had something worthwhile to say in response I've said it:Well, the systems that [MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION] is talking about include Burning Wheel, Cortex+ Heroic, HeroWars/Quest, a certain approach to 4e, etc.Which of those is supposed to imply a silly world?In default 4e, showing up doesn't as such earn XP. Playing the game (by engaging encounters, realising quests, and - per the rule in DMG2 - meaningfully engaging the non-encounter fiction) accures XP at a rate of (roughly) 4 level-equivalent monster's worth per hour. Or approximately 3-4 sessions per level.I think one of the most remarkable things about 4e is how, on the surface, it retains so many D&D mecahnical tropes (hp, XP, attack rolls, magic items, and the like) but uses them to build a game which is a genuine alternative to Gygax-style wargaming.In the case of XP, what was - in Gygax - a genuine reward system (ie by playing well, and having a bit of luck, you deeat monsters and find treasure and thus power up your playing piece) becomes instead a pacing device, that gradually propels the game through the "tiers of play" while allowing the actual focus of play to be on characgter goals, thematic story elements, etc.As best I understand it, the closest 5e comes to this is to ditch XP altogether for "milestone" - but that makes for an extremely GM-driven game, whereas the 4e XP system is fully compatible with player-driven RPGing.This is my point about them figuring as elements of the narrative, not as rewards for skilled play. Whether you get your +1 sword from looting a goblin cave or as a gift from your patron is a big deal in classic D&D, because the first is earned but the second not. But in 4e it doesn't matter as far as the actual mechanics and techniques of play are concerened - it only matters from the point of view of is this a story about goblin looters, or about noble warriors gifted swords by their patrons?I think 4e can do Arthurian legend and the Iliad.In the former case, cap at mid-paragon, and allow only martials, paladins, maybe certain STR cleric builds, and maybe some ritual-oriented bard builds (but like Dark Sun, the ritual list would need some culling). Maybe some druids and barbarians are also OK.Obviously wizards, invokers and the like have to go.As far as the Iliad is concerned, I'd say martial only, but it goes all the way to epic! Odysseus is a warlord archer, either INT or WIS dependingon taste. Achilles probably works well as a slayer fighter, or if you want non-Essentials only then make him a regular fighter.Ritual casting is obviously a thing, but the list will need stuff like Teleport and Secret Chest trimmed off it. And there is probably a need for a divine intervention mechanic - maybe based on Religion checks (with +2 bonus for a familial connection to the god, or if the person you are opposing has personal or familial enmity from your god).</blockquote>

Verification