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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 7381910" data-attributes="member: 23751">The second is an action declaration.&nbsp; The crazy person is fully trying to fly to the moon and is declaring that as an action.&nbsp; As for the heroic sacrifice, I may be jumping in, but I'm sure as hell going to try and land on a ledge so that I can sneak out later.&nbsp; Why die when you can be the hero AND live?There are no limits.&nbsp; Declaring that he's going to cut down 10 orcs is permissible.&nbsp; It's just doomed to failure.&nbsp; Automatic failure does not negate or prevent the declaration of the action.&nbsp; The only difference in the systems above is that with AD&amp;D the action cannot succeed, were with the others it can succeed.Or, you allow it to succeed but the compound is inert in that universe.&nbsp; There's no good reason that I can see why the action should not be permitted, even in a campaign where it won't succeed.Sure.&nbsp; Nobody is saying that they can't opt not to take certain actions.&nbsp; You've told me repeatedly that I am viewing things through the lense of DM oriented gaming.&nbsp; Now you're the one doing viewing this through the lense of your playstyle.&nbsp; &quot;I go to the market to buy a holy sword&quot; is absolutely a permissible action declaration in a game where they can't be found at local markets.&nbsp; The result of the action is that the PC wanders around for a while and doesn't find one.&nbsp; Why would I railroad the player by not allowing the PC to go look for something that the player knows can't be found?&nbsp; Maybe his PC is frantic to find one and looks places he knows rationally won't be there, but in an act of desperation looks there anyway.I didn't play 4e.&nbsp; They still get exp if they get unlucky and lose every fight, and fail every test?Edit: I saw you answer this after I posted.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 7381910, member: 23751"] The second is an action declaration. The crazy person is fully trying to fly to the moon and is declaring that as an action. As for the heroic sacrifice, I may be jumping in, but I'm sure as hell going to try and land on a ledge so that I can sneak out later. Why die when you can be the hero AND live? There are no limits. Declaring that he's going to cut down 10 orcs is permissible. It's just doomed to failure. Automatic failure does not negate or prevent the declaration of the action. The only difference in the systems above is that with AD&D the action cannot succeed, were with the others it can succeed. Or, you allow it to succeed but the compound is inert in that universe. There's no good reason that I can see why the action should not be permitted, even in a campaign where it won't succeed. Sure. Nobody is saying that they can't opt not to take certain actions. You've told me repeatedly that I am viewing things through the lense of DM oriented gaming. Now you're the one doing viewing this through the lense of your playstyle. "I go to the market to buy a holy sword" is absolutely a permissible action declaration in a game where they can't be found at local markets. The result of the action is that the PC wanders around for a while and doesn't find one. Why would I railroad the player by not allowing the PC to go look for something that the player knows can't be found? Maybe his PC is frantic to find one and looks places he knows rationally won't be there, but in an act of desperation looks there anyway. I didn't play 4e. They still get exp if they get unlucky and lose every fight, and fail every test? Edit: I saw you answer this after I posted. [/QUOTE]

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