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<blockquote data-quote="tomBitonti" data-source="post: 7382886" data-attributes="member: 13107">So ... how much of this is setting the &quot;scale limit&quot; to which players (and the GM) are able to change the game world?The GM may set a basic outline, while leaving player declarations so long as they fit within that basic outline.Then, absent powerful magic, the rules of physics are &quot;basic D&amp;D&quot;: Falls and lava hurt (but not as much as they should); normal people can't fly, and so forth.&nbsp; A player cannot make a declaration which affects these rules.On the other hand, while the GM may have placed two major cities a ways apart on a coastline (say, Boston and NY), that is a very coarse level of detail: Perhaps a play can &quot;create&quot; by declaration a village somewhere in-between.With &quot;scale limit&quot;, this likely changes over time: Initially, larger scale issues must be determined.&nbsp; As those issues are settled, the focus turns to issues of a smaller scale.&nbsp; Maybe, backing up at times to reset an issue which wasn't working out so well, but mostly not allowing large, previously settled issued to be changed.&nbsp; (But, allowing for re-interpretation!)Also, similar to a &quot;scale limit&quot; there are likely &quot;breadth of impact&quot; limits: A player can only go so far to make a declaration which affects other players:Player 1: My parents were killed in a raid by Evil Draconians.&nbsp; I have a deep hatred for dragons and their ilk.Player 2 (who is the brother of player 1): Say what?Then there are &quot;don't offend grandmother by being one of these&quot; limits: This would be, say, a player declaration made solely to mess with the GM or other players.&nbsp; But also, a GM who changes the scene on the fly to confound players.I think that in any system that allows action declarations, there will be reasonable limits to what can be declared, and we need to be careful to focus on what is reasonable.&nbsp; Otherwise, the arguments are just spinning straw.One notable point from a recent post was the question of whether the GM's fictional world and plot were sufficient to the player's interest.&nbsp; In a lot of games, players very much want the GM to provide a plot outline which details the adversity and challenges that the players will face.&nbsp; In other games (as expressed above), players want to have more of a part in detailing the fictional world.&nbsp; That seems to me to be a basic control with a slider reaching from Player on one end to GM on the other.Thx!TomB</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tomBitonti, post: 7382886, member: 13107"] So ... how much of this is setting the "scale limit" to which players (and the GM) are able to change the game world? The GM may set a basic outline, while leaving player declarations so long as they fit within that basic outline. Then, absent powerful magic, the rules of physics are "basic D&D": Falls and lava hurt (but not as much as they should); normal people can't fly, and so forth. A player cannot make a declaration which affects these rules. On the other hand, while the GM may have placed two major cities a ways apart on a coastline (say, Boston and NY), that is a very coarse level of detail: Perhaps a play can "create" by declaration a village somewhere in-between. With "scale limit", this likely changes over time: Initially, larger scale issues must be determined. As those issues are settled, the focus turns to issues of a smaller scale. Maybe, backing up at times to reset an issue which wasn't working out so well, but mostly not allowing large, previously settled issued to be changed. (But, allowing for re-interpretation!) Also, similar to a "scale limit" there are likely "breadth of impact" limits: A player can only go so far to make a declaration which affects other players: Player 1: My parents were killed in a raid by Evil Draconians. I have a deep hatred for dragons and their ilk. Player 2 (who is the brother of player 1): Say what? Then there are "don't offend grandmother by being one of these" limits: This would be, say, a player declaration made solely to mess with the GM or other players. But also, a GM who changes the scene on the fly to confound players. I think that in any system that allows action declarations, there will be reasonable limits to what can be declared, and we need to be careful to focus on what is reasonable. Otherwise, the arguments are just spinning straw. One notable point from a recent post was the question of whether the GM's fictional world and plot were sufficient to the player's interest. In a lot of games, players very much want the GM to provide a plot outline which details the adversity and challenges that the players will face. In other games (as expressed above), players want to have more of a part in detailing the fictional world. That seems to me to be a basic control with a slider reaching from Player on one end to GM on the other. Thx! TomB [/QUOTE]

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