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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7390713" data-attributes="member: 29398">Specific to 1e D&amp;D this makes sense, though I take issue with describing it as reduced to no more than &quot;a puzzle-solving, maze-solving exercise&quot;.&nbsp; More broadly and less system-specific, the game is in part about exploring and learning about the setting through the eyes of your PC, whether that setting is provided by the DM or by something pre-published e.g. Greyhawk, Golarion, whatever.&nbsp; This exploration largely assumes a setting that is more or less in place waiting to be explored.This is the contention with which I disagree: I don't at all think &quot;most&quot; contemporary play has moved far from its classic foundation at all, but has rather added the bits about interesting characters and story on to what was already there. It puts some more work on to the DM, but it's not impractical in the least.&nbsp; The players just have to realize that they're quite realistically almost never going to have all the information they need, and that now and then this lack of information (or flat-out inaccuracy of information) is going to mess them up.&nbsp; On a broader scale, the players have to accept that the GM is going to be keeping secrets from them only on a bigger scale than simple dungeon-crawl play would expec, and that the GM is going to be informed by these secrets when determining the results of PC actions.The PCs (and players at the table) won't always know why some action or other resolved the way it did...just like real life, that way...and this is not a problem unless the players at that table feel they have some sort of right or entitlement to know everything about anything that affects their PCs including things their PCs have no in-game way of knowing - at which point those players can find another table, 'cause they ain't playing at mine.Yes - exploration of the game-world or setting in which the PCs find themselves.&nbsp; It's one of the three pillars of play that have always been there but weren't clearly defined as such until 5e D&amp;D came along.In effect, as this discussion has gone on, it's become evident that the OP is asking whether this pillar is worth keeping.Lanefan</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7390713, member: 29398"] Specific to 1e D&D this makes sense, though I take issue with describing it as reduced to no more than "a puzzle-solving, maze-solving exercise". More broadly and less system-specific, the game is in part about exploring and learning about the setting through the eyes of your PC, whether that setting is provided by the DM or by something pre-published e.g. Greyhawk, Golarion, whatever. This exploration largely assumes a setting that is more or less in place waiting to be explored. This is the contention with which I disagree: I don't at all think "most" contemporary play has moved far from its classic foundation at all, but has rather added the bits about interesting characters and story on to what was already there. It puts some more work on to the DM, but it's not impractical in the least. The players just have to realize that they're quite realistically almost never going to have all the information they need, and that now and then this lack of information (or flat-out inaccuracy of information) is going to mess them up. On a broader scale, the players have to accept that the GM is going to be keeping secrets from them only on a bigger scale than simple dungeon-crawl play would expec, and that the GM is going to be informed by these secrets when determining the results of PC actions. The PCs (and players at the table) won't always know why some action or other resolved the way it did...just like real life, that way...and this is not a problem unless the players at that table feel they have some sort of right or entitlement to know everything about anything that affects their PCs including things their PCs have no in-game way of knowing - at which point those players can find another table, 'cause they ain't playing at mine. Yes - exploration of the game-world or setting in which the PCs find themselves. It's one of the three pillars of play that have always been there but weren't clearly defined as such until 5e D&D came along. In effect, as this discussion has gone on, it's become evident that the OP is asking whether this pillar is worth keeping. Lanefan [/QUOTE]

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