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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 7391365" data-attributes="member: 23751">I think I understand.&nbsp; In Story Now there would be some sort of goal to become the trusted guard of a king or the like and the play towards becoming a member of the Stewards guard would be guided by that agenda.&nbsp; It still doesn't change what I'm saying, though.&nbsp; You've already stated that the odds of it happening with my playstyle are slim.&nbsp; I tend to disagree with your assessment of those odds, as players like to do cool things like attach themselves to kings, but that also doesn't matter for my point.You stated that the things Pippin did REQUIRED agendas to be present.&nbsp; They don't and you have now acknowledged that they don't.&nbsp; Whether the odds are 1-2, 1-10, 1-100 or 1-1000000, there still is no requirement for an agenda to be present.&nbsp; It can happen in my playstyle just as I claimed. I will certainly acknowledge, though, that it would be much easier to achieve if the player has a pre-set agenda and the DM is working to see that it has a chance of happening.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I agree, which is why I said that with my playstyle the character growth would still happen.&nbsp; All of the same elements are there with the exception of the pre-set agenda.&nbsp; Boromir's sacrifice is very likely to cause my players to feel indebted in the same way, and that will play out in future choices.&nbsp; Character and character growth are very, very important to my players, as well as myself.&nbsp; Some of that will be established when they make their character, though they don't usually tell me about it.&nbsp; Sometimes they do.&nbsp; Often, though, something significant and unplanned will when put together with what they know of their character, cause completely unplanned and sometimes sideways character growth.&nbsp; They head off growing in a completely different direction.&nbsp; It's awesome to see.I agree, and it's these choices and/or successes and failures, that move the game.&nbsp; Again, these same sorts of things occur in my game, but just aren't done with the same kind of collaboration and pre-planned agendas.&nbsp; Again, it's not random in my game, either.&nbsp; It's just not pre-planned.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 7391365, member: 23751"] I think I understand. In Story Now there would be some sort of goal to become the trusted guard of a king or the like and the play towards becoming a member of the Stewards guard would be guided by that agenda. It still doesn't change what I'm saying, though. You've already stated that the odds of it happening with my playstyle are slim. I tend to disagree with your assessment of those odds, as players like to do cool things like attach themselves to kings, but that also doesn't matter for my point. You stated that the things Pippin did REQUIRED agendas to be present. They don't and you have now acknowledged that they don't. Whether the odds are 1-2, 1-10, 1-100 or 1-1000000, there still is no requirement for an agenda to be present. It can happen in my playstyle just as I claimed. I will certainly acknowledge, though, that it would be much easier to achieve if the player has a pre-set agenda and the DM is working to see that it has a chance of happening. :) I agree, which is why I said that with my playstyle the character growth would still happen. All of the same elements are there with the exception of the pre-set agenda. Boromir's sacrifice is very likely to cause my players to feel indebted in the same way, and that will play out in future choices. Character and character growth are very, very important to my players, as well as myself. Some of that will be established when they make their character, though they don't usually tell me about it. Sometimes they do. Often, though, something significant and unplanned will when put together with what they know of their character, cause completely unplanned and sometimes sideways character growth. They head off growing in a completely different direction. It's awesome to see. I agree, and it's these choices and/or successes and failures, that move the game. Again, these same sorts of things occur in my game, but just aren't done with the same kind of collaboration and pre-planned agendas. Again, it's not random in my game, either. It's just not pre-planned. [/QUOTE]

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