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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 7391405" data-attributes="member: 82106">Dude, don't get into an argument with me on ME history etc. I think I read LotR in 1st grade (and probably 10 times since). Isildur was the Son of Elendil, he cut the One Ring from Sauron's hand with the shards of Narsil (the sword Aragorn carries 3000 years later, still broken!). The fall of Sauron was the event from which the Third Age is dated, and Gondor was founded by Elendil, so its date falls within 100 years give or take of the start of the Third Age (I'd have to look to see the EXACT dates, but I'm sure I'm VERY close). Gandalf states "It is a little known fact that Isildur spent some time in Minas Anor before going north to take up the crown of Arnor." This is his explanation for why a description of the ring, in Isildur's hand, was to be found lost in the Minas Tirith archives, 3000 years later. The sinking of Numenor did preceed the end of the Second Age, yes. Elendil lead the exiles to Middle Earth and founded Gondor and Arnor. Sauron, now in his 'lidless eye' form, quickly mustered war on them. As I recall, Minas Ithil, later Minas Morgul, was established right after the war to help guard the entrance into Mordor, but it wasn't Isildur who did that AFAIK, it would have been Valendil (Isildur's brother and King of Gondor after his father's death) or one of his successors. At some point, maybe later I'm not sure, Osgiliath was founded and was the main city of Gondor. Again this must have been SOON after, because the master Palantir was housed there and linked to all the other stones, which were at Minas Anor, Minas Ithil, Orthanc, Weathertop, the Havens of Cirdain, and one other location, which IIRC was in the south. None of the palantiri were ever repositioned thereafter, although I seem to remember that the Orthanc stone was originally somewhere else? I'm not sure. Anyway, 3000 years later no really new works exist in Gondor, the same 3 cities exist (1 is now an evil tower filled with Nazgul, and one is in ruins) and there are said to be some other towns and perhaps cities along the coast, but its clear that Minas Tirith is the most important. There are also 'the Havens of Pelargir' at the Mouths of Anduin, but we never get any information about what sort of a place it is, aside from it being a roadstead where Gondor's naval forces were based. Presumably these havens already existed as this is where Elendil first made landfall.Even the Gates of Anduin, with Amon Hen and its partner on the east bank and the great guardian statues, are all stated by Aragorn to be 'mighty works of old' and he clearly indicates they are depictions of Elendil and Isildur. Perhaps they were built later, but it isn't likely it was MUCH later. So basically, AFAICT NOTHING was built in Gondor after the first couple of generations, the whole kingdom simply remained sort of frozen in amber with only some gradual decay. The appendices talk about a whole variety of wars, plagues, etc. which happened at various times, but in no case is there really any indication of any growth, substantial change, etc. Arnor is at least a BIT different, but not much. It exists for a good long while, well over 1000 years, and then eventually devolves into a number of petty states. Eventually they are all swallowed up by 'Angmar' and apparently virtually all life in the north is extinguished, as, outside of Bree and the Shire, there is NO population significant enough to produce any sort of political unit or state of any kind at all. It is stated clearly that both Bree and the Shire remember the Kings and 'await their return'. There's some statements about the existence of 'Dunlendings' further south, but its unclear if they have anything but some tribal organization.No, the Third Age of ME is pretty much marked by NOTHING happening. The elves have pretty much blown off ME, except Cirdain, Galadriel, and Elrond, and a few of their immediate dependents. The dwarves build a few new mines in the Blue Mtns and at Erebor, but nothing else happens with them either for 3000 years. 'Lesser men' seem fairly busy, but they seem to mostly stay clear of the west, or live only in 'fringe' areas like Dunland, the edges of Mirkwood, or in the far north. Elrond stays holed up in Rivendell the whole time, Cirdain in the havens, and Galadriel in Loth Lorien. The ents keep to Fangorn, etc.Edit: As for wikis... There's LOTS of material that was later generated by ICE for MERP etc. None of it is canonical. It is largely logical extrapolations of what was presented in LotR and related material, but TBH what most impressed me about it was how profound the difference was between Tolkien's ageless kingdoms and the RP-able mundane material of the ICE stuff. ME becomes a much less mythic and abstract place, because you really cannot RP in what Tolkien wrought, at least not much. Its just too barren of anything HAPPENING.</blockquote>

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