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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 7392492" data-attributes="member: 23751">It seems to me that this is a form of establishing an agenda.&nbsp; The players can in this case let the DM know what they would like to encounter, similar to declaring an action to go into the woods and try to find an ogre, then rolling some sort of skill check to see if they find one or not.&nbsp; The difference is that they don't actually have to roll.In included it, because it seems to be some sort of &quot;yes, and&quot; type of game, at least from that passage, and that sort of game includes increased player authorship of the narrative like you two have been advocating for.Sure, it's a matter of degree.&nbsp; But it's still along the same lines.&nbsp; Both involve authorship of the backstory, just through different means.&nbsp; That's not how Tuovinen uses it, though.&quot;Backstory is the part of a roleplaying game scenario that “has happened before the game began”. The concept only makes sense when somebody has done preparatory work for the game or is using specific heuristics to simulate such preparation in real-time. For example, if the GM has decided in advance that the butler did it, then that is part of the backstory – it happened before the player characters came to the scene, and the GM will do his job with the assumption that this is an unchanging part of the game, even if the players might not know about it. Similarly a player character’s personal history is part of the backstory in a game that requires such. Backstory is specifically separate from what might happen during play itself. We say that somebody has “backstory authority” if he is allowed to determine something about the backstory, simply enough.&quot;Here he decided that the butler did it as part of prep before the game begins.&nbsp; He specifically says it happened before the players came to the scene, not that it happened outside of the game. So in game when the players find out about it, they are finding out backstory and the PCs can discuss it.&nbsp; He also says &quot;Backstory is specifically separate from what might happen during play itself.&quot;&nbsp; Play itself takes place in the present of the game world, so even that passage doesn't talk about backstory being apart from the in-game reality.&nbsp; He references it through the butler example and the three examples above as it being inside the game reality.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 7392492, member: 23751"] It seems to me that this is a form of establishing an agenda. The players can in this case let the DM know what they would like to encounter, similar to declaring an action to go into the woods and try to find an ogre, then rolling some sort of skill check to see if they find one or not. The difference is that they don't actually have to roll. In included it, because it seems to be some sort of "yes, and" type of game, at least from that passage, and that sort of game includes increased player authorship of the narrative like you two have been advocating for. Sure, it's a matter of degree. But it's still along the same lines. Both involve authorship of the backstory, just through different means. That's not how Tuovinen uses it, though. "Backstory is the part of a roleplaying game scenario that “has happened before the game began”. The concept only makes sense when somebody has done preparatory work for the game or is using specific heuristics to simulate such preparation in real-time. For example, if the GM has decided in advance that the butler did it, then that is part of the backstory – it happened before the player characters came to the scene, and the GM will do his job with the assumption that this is an unchanging part of the game, even if the players might not know about it. Similarly a player character’s personal history is part of the backstory in a game that requires such. Backstory is specifically separate from what might happen during play itself. We say that somebody has “backstory authority” if he is allowed to determine something about the backstory, simply enough." Here he decided that the butler did it as part of prep before the game begins. He specifically says it happened before the players came to the scene, not that it happened outside of the game. So in game when the players find out about it, they are finding out backstory and the PCs can discuss it. He also says "Backstory is specifically separate from what might happen during play itself." Play itself takes place in the present of the game world, so even that passage doesn't talk about backstory being apart from the in-game reality. He references it through the butler example and the three examples above as it being inside the game reality. [/QUOTE]

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