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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7394419" data-attributes="member: 42582">Well, this is true only for certain values of what they do.The players in your game, for instance, have 100% control over whether or not their PCs search for a secret door. They don't have 100% control over whether or not their PCs discover a secret door.Well, I'm not sure what "force fit" means here, and nor what you mean by "doesn't make sense". I mean, if there is a stone wall in an elaborate architectural construction like a dungeon or a castle, why would a secret door not make sense? How is discovering one "force fitting" anything?Of course if the GM has already written a story about a castle with no secret doors, then it would contradict that story to find a secret door. But that's why I don't like that sort of pre-authorship, which prioritises the GM's story over actually playing the fiction at the table.Well, anything the players can dream up seems slightly exaggerated language - but, putting that to one side, this is not my experience at all. In my experience players want to play the game and play the fiction. Not break it or make it silly."Cinematic" is not a big part of how my games play. But the players don't always choose the easiest path to victory - there can be all sorts of reasons (eg promises made, other sorts of obligations and moral constraint, etc) that comes into play.My own PC is a knight of a holy order. He - which is to say I, when I'm playing him - am bound by obligations of chivalry, of justice, of faith. Only a weak or evil person would always choose the most expedient path!In my 4e game, the player who is best at mechanical optimisation plays a drow sorcerer. From the first time this PC entered the game (at 3rd level), it has been established (by the player) that he is a member of a drow secret society, the Order of the Bat, whose members worship Corellon and have the goal of overthrowing Lolth and ending the sundering of the elves. At 28th level he <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?440504-The-Abyss-sealed-the-drow-freed-the-campaign-reaches-its-climax" target="_blank">finally had the chance</a> to realise - the PCs killed Lolth. This particular player then sealed the Abyss at the 66th level (ie the Demonwebs), even though doing so cost him one of his four daily powers permanently (unless he wants to unseal it again), and also required him to change his paragon path (which was a power downgrade, given that his original paragon path - Demonskin Adept - is one of the most powerful in the game).Whether or not that counts as cinematic (others can judge that), I don't think it counts as taking the easiest path.</blockquote>

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