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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7395482" data-attributes="member: 996">They were pretty awful, out the gate, mechanically borked, and they were a new thing, so even once they were working right, hard to get used to.&nbsp; But, they did open up balanced mechanical resolution to a broad array of challenges that, in the past, had to be hand-waved, given short shrift with anti-climactic single checks, and didn't earn meaningful exp...&nbsp; Until you get used to it, any new mechanic can seem to pull you out of the world, but, because they model the characters' actual abilities in succeeding or failing at the tasks needed to overcome the challenge, once you do accept them, they actually bring play closer to the characters &amp; their story. (Though, like many things in 4e, they do tend to make the 'world' revolve around the PCs, since it is their story.&nbsp; For instance, if the party try to successfully complete a ritual before enemies can disrupt it, the ritual is their skill challenge, while if the party are trying to disrupt a ritual before it completes, 'foiling the ritual' is /their/ skill challenge.)&nbsp;The downside to that is that it's a test of the players' ability to sell you on their ideas, rather than a test of their character's abilities... ...but at least there's a chance the characters might come into it.&nbsp; Though, it is also possible to run a skill challenge that way, 'covertly,' where the players not only have to accumulate so many successes before 3 failures, but need to figure out what the skill challenge is as they feel their way through it.&nbsp; It's just using it as a tool for determining/achieving difficulty &amp; setting exp awards, at that point.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7395482, member: 996"] They were pretty awful, out the gate, mechanically borked, and they were a new thing, so even once they were working right, hard to get used to. But, they did open up balanced mechanical resolution to a broad array of challenges that, in the past, had to be hand-waved, given short shrift with anti-climactic single checks, and didn't earn meaningful exp... Until you get used to it, any new mechanic can seem to pull you out of the world, but, because they model the characters' actual abilities in succeeding or failing at the tasks needed to overcome the challenge, once you do accept them, they actually bring play closer to the characters & their story. (Though, like many things in 4e, they do tend to make the 'world' revolve around the PCs, since it is their story. For instance, if the party try to successfully complete a ritual before enemies can disrupt it, the ritual is their skill challenge, while if the party are trying to disrupt a ritual before it completes, 'foiling the ritual' is /their/ skill challenge.) The downside to that is that it's a test of the players' ability to sell you on their ideas, rather than a test of their character's abilities... ...but at least there's a chance the characters might come into it. Though, it is also possible to run a skill challenge that way, 'covertly,' where the players not only have to accumulate so many successes before 3 failures, but need to figure out what the skill challenge is as they feel their way through it. It's just using it as a tool for determining/achieving difficulty & setting exp awards, at that point. [/QUOTE]

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