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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 7396677" data-attributes="member: 82106">lol! That's a lot of commentary to digest, but let me just respond that it DOES matter what are the interpretations of some of these questions, and Tuovinen's essay DOES have some relevance! I mean, look, [MENTION=23751]Maxperson[/MENTION]'s interpretation of Story Now (of standard narrative model) becomes ridiculous when he flat out states that you can have NO agenda or signaling between players and GMs and somehow magically you have a narrative model game or magically you just achieve the same ends. I mean, regardless of how we explicate it (and I'm OK with your "this discussion of backstory is getting ridiculous") Max and Pemerton cannot both be correct!! I know from experience of play in this technique that some of the things Max asserts are simply not tenable. I know it. I don't need Eero Tuovinen to justify that, its simply outright demonstrable in my experience, because I've tried to do what Max claims 'just happens'. It never works! Now, I'm not saying his game "doesn't work" or he's fooling on anyone. I just think that what he does and what [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] does, and what I do, and what [MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION] does, etc. are not the same thing. I think if you understand the Tuovinen essay in the light of Pemerton's definition of backstory then you see how things make sense. It DOES cast a light on this distinction. Perhaps the guy wasn't being particularly precise when he wrote it and it isn't perfectly clear and doesn't touch on all the relevant points. Perhaps its even not perfectly consistent. I'd say he's not talking about a specific game, and thus the concepts are covering a lot of different possible game designs. That makes it easy to draw inconsistent conclusions from it, but a careful reading does provide insight!Anyway, I've done more than skim it for statements that support my PoV, and I've got plenty of experience that seems to indicate certain truths about how RPGs work. I don't know what else to say. I don't care about superior or inferior but when I read monkeyshine I generally respond in a way that is intended to explicate where the shine is and where the monkey is.</blockquote>

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