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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 7405219" data-attributes="member: 82106">Yeah, but story type games, like Dungeon World, literally "just don't work that way" There's no 'us and them' in DW, and I don't have it that way in my games either (which are closer to Pemerton's model than DW is, note the last sentence in that quote, which he wouldn't agree with IMHO is part of his style of play).Yeah, I don't agree about the 'oppositional' part of that statement. The GM can be a fan of the characters, it works quite well in DW! It works for me! Now, do I HAVE to be easy on them? No!Yeah, I understand where it comes from, it still falls under my rubrik of (pardon the expression) '2 dimensional thinking'.I think I touched on this in another post, maybe one that I made after you made this one.No matter what the players do, they're going to face another scene and another challenge. Their choices may make the challenges more interesting to them, and give them a better chance of success (or not) but authoring a 'secret door' to 'get out of' a bad situation is not going to put you in a GOOD situation automatically! The next actual meaningful scene is going to put pressure on the PCs AGAIN. This is likely to be 'whatever is on the other side of that door'. The only thing they play for is to do COOL STUFF, and learn about their characters. They literally have NO reason to make moves which don't lead to that. Its utterly pointless. Is it possible a player is going to want to make a move which everyone else (and maybe even he) objectively believes isn't dramatically interesting or fun? Maybe simply because of an idle desire to accomplish some mechanical game reward (IE treasure perhaps). Maybe, but this kind of thing turns out to be pretty much self-extinguishing too. As I say, another challenge and another dramatic situation is going to rise up immediately to replace any that are tossed away by the players. VERY quickly they learn this and the focus of play changes from 'get the gold' to 'do something cool' or 'my character sticks to his guns even if it costs his life!' or 'I die defending the door!'. In fact, my story now 'D&D' games are the most deadly of all. Turns out players are perfectly willing to trade a boring character sheet for a noble death story! Sure, but the root of all conflict is in the beliefs and core values of the characters. That is the point of 'go to the story'. Grab the character by the metaphorical hair and toss him to the story wolves! It doesn't require conflict between the GM and the players, only between PCs and 'other stuff' (NPCs, their own beliefs, the world, fate, etc.). Well, I don't want to misappropriate anyone's words... I thought it was [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] quoting something that Ron Edwards said about the design of Sorcerer.</blockquote>

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