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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 7407450" data-attributes="member: 82106">To reinforce this (because believe me it requires ENDLESS reinforcement, folks who play 'OSR-like' games or highly 'classical' styles of D&amp;D ASSUME they have some sort of monopoly on being able to kill PCs for some stupid reason) there's NO CORRELATION AT ALL in versions of D&amp;D. 4e, as an example, has no specific level of deadliness. There isn't even one implied in the rules, beyond the recommendations for level variation of encounters, and a general advice that seems to envisage (but not dictate) low-lethality in SCs. Fourth Core's canonical adventure is in fact absurdly lethal. I noted in a read through that there were at least 8, maybe more, 'insta-gank' situations where even reasonable PC actions produce instant, irrevocable, and mechanically unavoidable character death. None of this 'breaks the rules' of 4e. Even those aside you have to manage at least FOUR, possibly quite a few more, level+4 encounters (and these are low heroic PCs) without any pause in order to get through. My understanding is that in tournament play no party EVER survived, or even made it halfway. Its probably POSSIBLE, I think they stated that at least someone did make it in playtest, but it would require perfect character optimization and ideal levels of tactical play, plus not losing anyone to the insta-ganks.The point is, any of these games can really have pretty much any arbitrary level of lethality. Its all up to the tastes of the people playing the game. There are games where death really isn't a normal part of play, but in those cases the focus is probably on other, potentially difficult to achieve, goals.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 7407450, member: 82106"] To reinforce this (because believe me it requires ENDLESS reinforcement, folks who play 'OSR-like' games or highly 'classical' styles of D&D ASSUME they have some sort of monopoly on being able to kill PCs for some stupid reason) there's NO CORRELATION AT ALL in versions of D&D. 4e, as an example, has no specific level of deadliness. There isn't even one implied in the rules, beyond the recommendations for level variation of encounters, and a general advice that seems to envisage (but not dictate) low-lethality in SCs. Fourth Core's canonical adventure is in fact absurdly lethal. I noted in a read through that there were at least 8, maybe more, 'insta-gank' situations where even reasonable PC actions produce instant, irrevocable, and mechanically unavoidable character death. None of this 'breaks the rules' of 4e. Even those aside you have to manage at least FOUR, possibly quite a few more, level+4 encounters (and these are low heroic PCs) without any pause in order to get through. My understanding is that in tournament play no party EVER survived, or even made it halfway. Its probably POSSIBLE, I think they stated that at least someone did make it in playtest, but it would require perfect character optimization and ideal levels of tactical play, plus not losing anyone to the insta-ganks. The point is, any of these games can really have pretty much any arbitrary level of lethality. Its all up to the tastes of the people playing the game. There are games where death really isn't a normal part of play, but in those cases the focus is probably on other, potentially difficult to achieve, goals. [/QUOTE]

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