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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7409038" data-attributes="member: 29398">Not quite.In (1) the PC has no idea if the search is futile or not and on failure still has no idea if the search was futile or just badly done; ditto for the player (assuming these rolls are hidden, which for just this reason they should be).  In (2) what you say above is true, and that very player knowledge that the action isn't futile vs. their not knowing is exactly the difference I'm both getting at and saying is bad: it hauls the player out into the meta-game no matter how hard she tries to resist.Alright.What if a player (intentionally or otherwise) forces you to introduce a fourth element - say, she tries to climb one of the cliffs along the defile, so now you have to worry about a Steep Cliff issue.  What then?For tactical reasons it certainly would matter! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  I've had characters die in the past due to just this: where a DM describes enough to let me imagine a scene or element, and I act based on my envisioning of what was described.  Problem is, his envisioning is different and his descripton is just vague enough to allow either interpretation...What follows is usually a fearsome argument.This is why I use minis, so that everyone has roughly the same idea of how the various moving parts spatially correlate in situations like this.  For this set-up I'd probably make each square represent 50' or so, and place the various minis in a representational manner; it would also allow me to more clearly describe the course the wyverns were taking as they flew in (such things always get misinterpreted IME if just described or done TotM).I've never seen a table that wouldn't ask about the level of lighting in the defile if not told, as if it's in deep shadow who knows what could be hiding in there.Which leads me to this: I'm wondering now if I've got a different view of this scene in my mind as "player" than you do as "GM".Which, if "Narrow Deflie" doesn't have a clear definition somewhere in the system rules, is going to lead to a bunch of questions every time to draw out more specifics...at least, it would if I was playing. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />That would be followed with a boatload of questions from me. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Also, doesn't the system limit of so few distinctions - in a scene that might have many - tend to overmuch lead the PCs by the noses to where they need to go?  For example, you only mentioning as distinctions the Furniture, Desk and Box immediately tells me-as-player I can ignore the rug, the papers on the desk, the small chandelier*, the fireplace*, and the faded portraits* on the walls as they've all just been defined as irrelevant.  My PC, however, wouldn't know this.* - not included in my original description but I throw them in now as things that could easily be in such a studyAnd another example of misinterpretation, in this case of a detailed description: in my narration I state the window looks out to the north, meaning that while the room is daylit it's unlikely to actually be sunlit unless it's early morning or late evening in the summer (and if such was the case I'd have amended the narration to suit).  Sunlit vs. daylit makes a huge difference to the ambient light level in the room; only being daylit means there'll be some dark shadowy corners, and with all this dust if someone lights a torch or candle during their search... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Lan-"yeah, there's a reason I mention the dust three or four times in that narration: it's the room's hidden hazard"-efan</blockquote>

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