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<blockquote data-quote="Bedrockgames" data-source="post: 7411132" data-attributes="member: 85555">I think we could debate which approach is quantifiably more free all day, and no one would ever agree, because this is about a very subjective conceptualization of play. I can completely buy, that for someone interested in exploring the themes Permerton and company want, this approach feels like greater agency. However, I the point we are trying convey here is being able to shape the story isn't the only thing that matters when you are talking about player freedom and agency. If you are there to experience that, of course it will feel like greater agency to you. But someone like Max isn't using that as a benchmark for how free he is. I am willing to bet, if Max played in a game with Pemerton's style, he'd feel his agency being curtailed. While Pemerton would probably feel the same way in a game using Max's approach. Also, what does this ultimately have to do with world building? We've been debating agency for God knows how many pages, and I am beginning to wonder why we are so stuck on this point. Obviously people disagree about it. I don't see the conversation moving that much more in either direction at this stage. Right now I feel like this whole conversation is veering into sophistry IMO. I am reminded of the corn scene in I, Claudius.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Bedrockgames, post: 7411132, member: 85555"] I think we could debate which approach is quantifiably more free all day, and no one would ever agree, because this is about a very subjective conceptualization of play. I can completely buy, that for someone interested in exploring the themes Permerton and company want, this approach feels like greater agency. However, I the point we are trying convey here is being able to shape the story isn't the only thing that matters when you are talking about player freedom and agency. If you are there to experience that, of course it will feel like greater agency to you. But someone like Max isn't using that as a benchmark for how free he is. I am willing to bet, if Max played in a game with Pemerton's style, he'd feel his agency being curtailed. While Pemerton would probably feel the same way in a game using Max's approach. Also, what does this ultimately have to do with world building? We've been debating agency for God knows how many pages, and I am beginning to wonder why we are so stuck on this point. Obviously people disagree about it. I don't see the conversation moving that much more in either direction at this stage. Right now I feel like this whole conversation is veering into sophistry IMO. I am reminded of the corn scene in I, Claudius. [/QUOTE]

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