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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7447665" data-attributes="member: 996">I may be thinking more of Traveler as in the 'Characters &amp; Combat' booklet, back in the day, vs /some/ d20 game.But, no, I'm not impressed by long or open-ended lists of skills, quite the opposite:&nbsp; I think they can undermine play by 'creating incompetence.'&nbsp; (and, for the record, the 3e/PF skill list is too long)&nbsp;Remove &quot;out-of-combat&quot; and I'd agree with that sentence.&nbsp; ;P&nbsp; Seriously, though, if you had a build designed to optimize a skill or something, then it could be every bit as effective as magic in it's area of specialty.&nbsp;Because in-class, and because stat + skill, right?&nbsp; Ranks could pretty easily be the most significant portion of a skill bonus, and, yeah, I know 2 is pretty good in Traveler (at least it was, 1 was perfectly competent, IIRC), and the scale is completely different thanks to d20's proclivities... &nbsp;I haven't played it in over 10 years (and never played it much, the &quot;Stat Hero&quot; classes in place of archetypes did not appeal) and can't say I recall details, but I'd be mildly surprised if there was no way to do some equivalent of cross-classing to get a slightly against-type skill or other trick.&nbsp; &nbsp;I know the topic drifted to aping other games feelz and system-artifacts and whatnot, but I don't put much stock in it, as I've said it's a rabbit-hole with little bearing on anything.&nbsp; Can you do the same characters, in the same genre, in the same situations, and tell the same story?&nbsp; In this case, though, I was thinking more of just the structure of the challenges.&nbsp; Can you have a scenario involving the elements in question, and resolve it, depending on edition, with as much interest &amp; agency as I ever got out of Traveler (and I did play it more than a bit in the 80s - I'll laugh if 'Classic' Traveler is nothing like it was then, though I suppose I won't be too suprised).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7447665, member: 996"] I may be thinking more of Traveler as in the 'Characters & Combat' booklet, back in the day, vs /some/ d20 game. But, no, I'm not impressed by long or open-ended lists of skills, quite the opposite: I think they can undermine play by 'creating incompetence.' (and, for the record, the 3e/PF skill list is too long) Remove "out-of-combat" and I'd agree with that sentence. ;P Seriously, though, if you had a build designed to optimize a skill or something, then it could be every bit as effective as magic in it's area of specialty. Because in-class, and because stat + skill, right? Ranks could pretty easily be the most significant portion of a skill bonus, and, yeah, I know 2 is pretty good in Traveler (at least it was, 1 was perfectly competent, IIRC), and the scale is completely different thanks to d20's proclivities... I haven't played it in over 10 years (and never played it much, the "Stat Hero" classes in place of archetypes did not appeal) and can't say I recall details, but I'd be mildly surprised if there was no way to do some equivalent of cross-classing to get a slightly against-type skill or other trick. I know the topic drifted to aping other games feelz and system-artifacts and whatnot, but I don't put much stock in it, as I've said it's a rabbit-hole with little bearing on anything. Can you do the same characters, in the same genre, in the same situations, and tell the same story? In this case, though, I was thinking more of just the structure of the challenges. Can you have a scenario involving the elements in question, and resolve it, depending on edition, with as much interest & agency as I ever got out of Traveler (and I did play it more than a bit in the 80s - I'll laugh if 'Classic' Traveler is nothing like it was then, though I suppose I won't be too suprised). [/QUOTE]

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