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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7448779" data-attributes="member: 996">At first glance I read that last word as 'insanity.'&nbsp;Heh.&nbsp; Can't even stick D&amp;D, itself, in the box once that wilely 4e comes into it.&nbsp; ;P&nbsp;D&amp;D had been slowly inching toward players having more input into &quot;the fiction&quot;&nbsp; In, 2e they started getting some 'build' options, 3e more options &amp; they got to re-skin their characters' appearnce &amp; gear, 4e more options &amp; could re-skin just about everything about their character.&nbsp; Of course, that was by 2008.&nbsp; In 1981 Champions! was already letting players define virtually everything about their character, including things like, yes Hunteds, that tied them back into, or even /added to/ the world.&nbsp; Really, each 'special effect' on a power that wasn't just lifted from some example essentially added to the fictional backdrop of the world.&nbsp; And, Hero powers didn't just accomplish tasks, they had effects, that could represent, in fiction, quite different things from the obivious implied task resolution.&nbsp; For instance, your Batman clone could pull his 'vanishing when you turn your back' trick (&quot;I hate when he does that&quot;) without resolving discrete Stealth tasks all the time, 'just' buy a Teleport (not through solid objects - or maybe through them, for preternatural Escape Artist), the special effect is preternatural stealth &amp; timing - heck, as part of it, his decision to Teleport could &quot;make&quot; you turn your back for a moment.&nbsp;If a game asks you to &quot;re-learn what it means to be an RPG player,&quot; it's strongly implying that it's not an RPG - or that every RPG before it wasn't.&nbsp; Neither seems like a politik sort of implication.&nbsp;Oh, there'll be some re-learning whatever you emerge from D&amp;D into (obviously, other than Arduin, PF, OSR, Fantasy Heartbreakers, &amp;c).&nbsp; Even in the 70s, going from D&amp;D to Traveler, for instance, you're not treasure hunting,&nbsp; leveling up, and having your character fundamentally changed by arbitrary run-ins with curses, wishes, magic items, etc...&nbsp; you're just getting older.Going to Hero you'll be re-learning all that, and getting used to the idea that the number (power/limitation/advantage) on your sheet only represents what you can accomplish, in game terms, not what/how you do it, that's night &amp; day compared to D&amp;D.&nbsp;I feel like there's a lot more to this thought...&quot;...not just about...&quot;&nbsp; ...but also:?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7448779, member: 996"] At first glance I read that last word as 'insanity.' Heh. Can't even stick D&D, itself, in the box once that wilely 4e comes into it. ;P D&D had been slowly inching toward players having more input into "the fiction" In, 2e they started getting some 'build' options, 3e more options & they got to re-skin their characters' appearnce & gear, 4e more options & could re-skin just about everything about their character. Of course, that was by 2008. In 1981 Champions! was already letting players define virtually everything about their character, including things like, yes Hunteds, that tied them back into, or even /added to/ the world. Really, each 'special effect' on a power that wasn't just lifted from some example essentially added to the fictional backdrop of the world. And, Hero powers didn't just accomplish tasks, they had effects, that could represent, in fiction, quite different things from the obivious implied task resolution. For instance, your Batman clone could pull his 'vanishing when you turn your back' trick ("I hate when he does that") without resolving discrete Stealth tasks all the time, 'just' buy a Teleport (not through solid objects - or maybe through them, for preternatural Escape Artist), the special effect is preternatural stealth & timing - heck, as part of it, his decision to Teleport could "make" you turn your back for a moment. If a game asks you to "re-learn what it means to be an RPG player," it's strongly implying that it's not an RPG - or that every RPG before it wasn't. Neither seems like a politik sort of implication. Oh, there'll be some re-learning whatever you emerge from D&D into (obviously, other than Arduin, PF, OSR, Fantasy Heartbreakers, &c). Even in the 70s, going from D&D to Traveler, for instance, you're not treasure hunting, leveling up, and having your character fundamentally changed by arbitrary run-ins with curses, wishes, magic items, etc... you're just getting older. Going to Hero you'll be re-learning all that, and getting used to the idea that the number (power/limitation/advantage) on your sheet only represents what you can accomplish, in game terms, not what/how you do it, that's night & day compared to D&D. I feel like there's a lot more to this thought... "...not just about..." ...but also: ? [/QUOTE]

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