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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 7448847" data-attributes="member: 48965">Definitely agree.Ok two things...1. Let's remember the context of this side discussion... it was not if one player wants to play FATE and another wants to play OD&D then they can both get what they want by using a mainstream game like 5e... that's too specific and was never my argument.  I assume if you are knowledgeable enough and focused enough and nothing matters more than getting the exact experience of FATE... well then you'l be playing FATE with a group of like-minded individuals... personally I don't think the specific rules and experience are that important to the majority of gamers and so my argument was based on players with particular leanings and preferences vs. a desire to play an exact system. 2. Let's step back for a moment and look at the definition of FATE's aspects as I think this will help us examine it at a high level (and perhaps shed clarity on what I mean by that... -Defining AspectsAn aspect is a phrase that describes something unique or noteworthy about whatever it’s attached to. They’re the primary way you spend and gain fate points, and they influence the story by providing an opportunity for a character to get a bonus, complicating a character’s life, or adding to another character’s roll or passive opposition.Defining FATE PointsGMs and players, you both have a pool of points called fate points you can use to influence the game. You represent these with tokens, as we mentioned in The Basics. Players, you start with a certain number of points every scenario, equal to your character’s refresh. You’ll also reset to your refresh rate if you ended a mid-scenario session with fewer fate points than your rate. GMs, you get a budget of fate points to spend in every scene.When your aspects come into play, you will usually spend or gain a fate point.Aspects...So it's a phrase that describes something unique or noteworthy about whatever it's attached to.  I would say creating Bonds, Flaws and Ideals do the same (thought admittedly they are more categorically limited than aspects...).They're a primary (though not the only) way you spend and gain FATE points... so I would say that kind of debunks the tight coupling of FATE point expenditure and aspects, FATE points (which are the actual currency can be spent on bonuses related to aspects... but don't have to be.  In turn inspiration could be spent on an action relevant to the Bond Flaw or Ideal... but don't have to be.They influence the story in one of 3 ways...provide an opportunity to get a bonus/complicate characters life/add to another character's roll... These are all things the Bond/Flaw/Ideal system coupled with Inspiration cover...   FATE Points...They influence the game... Inspiration does the same.Now here is where I see the major differences at a high level... The DM doesn't get Inspiration to spend and There is no starting/refreshed Inspiration each game.Well I've tried to clarify it above but I am starting to think that many proponents of FATE see admitting  similar their high level functions are in each game.  Do I believe they are the exact same or that the mechanics of 5e can replicate FATE exactly... no, but I never made that argument. Well to be fair that was a very recent statement on my part and not really part of my initial argument... Also, FATE started as a variant of FUDGE... so not sure I'm willing to totally backtrack on that statement however I think it's only tangentially related to my main point so I'm also not ready to spend a ton of word count on disputing the matter.  I'll just leave this tidbit from wikipedia and let everyone draw their own conclusions. From Wikipedia...SystemProbability of results in the Fate systemFate is based on the FUDGE system, and uses FUDGE's verbal scale and Fudge dice, but most versions of Fate eschew the use of mandatory traits such as Strength and Intelligence. Instead, it uses a long list of skills and assumes that every character is "mediocre" in all skills except those that the character is explicitly defined as being good at. Skills may perform one or more of the four actions: attacking, defending, overcoming obstacles (a catch-all for solving problems) or creating an advantage (see below). Exceptional abilities are defined through the use of Stunts and Aspects.Hmmm... I disagree with how you view skills in FATE...I haven't seen anywhere in the rules where skills are totally optional.  Can they be tweaked for your particular game, yes but they are assumed to be part of a FATE game, at least according to the FATE rules.  Skills are how you perform any action in FATE not Aspects.  If there are nothing but Aspects... what exactly are they being tagged to give a bonus too?  Also FATE Core does have a list of default skills and suggestions on tweaking said list for different genres... Personally, I see Aspects as a modifier to the basic competencies of your characters represented by skills and stunts (these are the rolls being modified by FATE points which are in turn gained through Aspects.Well I assume we are talking about FATE Core, if not then we have to make allowances for all the variations of the d20 engine as well. In FATE Core there are 3 actions...Attack, Defend and Create Advantage.    I think Attack and Defend are pretty self explanatory while Create Advatage allows you to invoke an aspect which in turn allows you to do one of 4 things...Take a +2 on your current skill roll after you’ve rolled the dice.Reroll all your dice.Pass a +2 benefit to another character’s roll, if it’s reasonable that the aspect you’re invoking would be able to help.Add +2 to any source of passive opposition, if it’s reasonable that the aspect you’re invoking could contribute to making things more difficult. You can also use this to create passive opposition at Fair (+2) if there wasn’t going to be any.So it's the same thing you can do with an aspect.  I'm sorry but in core FATE I'm just not seeing how someone who enjoys tactical play is going to find this satisfactory much less someone who's primary enjoyment is derived from it.</blockquote>

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