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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aldarc" data-source="post: 7449017" data-attributes="member: 5142">I already did this. So from what I gather from the clarity you shed below, it means "you must be high for this argument to work..." I would say creating Bonds, Flaws, and Ideals do not do the same. Let's go back to something that I quoted earlier that talks "at a high level" what aspects do: Maybe BFIs touch lightly on the first if one is generous here, but they do nothing in regards to the second. I'm not asking you to read my posts at a high level, but I would appreciate if you read them on some level. If you did, then you would have seen where I established this point. So I am not sure what position you have debunked. But aspects do constitute three-quarters of uses, with powering stunts being the other. I would estimate that players engage with the aspects/fate economy 95 percent of the time, because we are talking about a rare special case of powerful stunts. Yeah, and I think this is the wrong way to read this at a high level. I don't think that the "can/could" leads to meaningful statements here, and such formulations open the floodgates for some absurd" high level" comparisons. (E.g., a brick can be used to strike repeated blows on nails to drive them into a surface; ergo, bricks serve a similar function as a hammer.) Here is how I would see the "what" differently here, and this leans on your first formulation which erred closer to the mark: Wrong again, but I have already explained how before, and I don't think that it would be polite for you to expect me to explain it again when it's available for you to read. This again is an incredibly superficial reading of both, and it's difficult to see much value in "high level" interpretations if these are the results of such analyses. Much like with "can" before, "influence the game" is applied to liberally that it is virtually meaningless. Is this really how "high level" analyses work for you? Render something to the point of insipid meaninglessness so as to make false equivalent statements? Fate points influence the game. Spells do the same. Fate points influence the game. Attack rolls do the same. Fate points influence the game. As it turns out, mechanics and agents influence the game. I don't think that you have. You have made broad, generic statements and applied superficial analyses. You have not demonstrated or articulated the function of these game mechanics in their respective systems apart from saying that they are the same or similar. Love how the bold stops right before the BUT. Several points here. I would argue that skills are not about how you perform any action, but instead reflect the nature of the action, the what. The contextual mode for "how" occurs in the four possible actions: overcome, attack, defend, and create an advantage. Because you can use, for example, the Provoke skill to Overcome an obstacle, make a mental Attack, or to Create an Advantage. It depends on the circumstances of the fiction. Two, Fate Accelerated kinda throws a huge wrench into this argument as well because it uses Approaches rather than Skills. Skills are about "what," whereas Approaches are about "how." Three, if you read the Fate System Toolkit - also available to read for free on the Fate SRD - then it provides alternative skill systems including, <a href="https://fate-srd.com/fate-system-toolkit/structural-changes#aspects-only" target="_blank">Aspects only</a>. You will still associate the Aspects with a numerical bonus, but that still is removing a skill list. See <a href="https://fate-srd.com/three-rocketeers/no-skill-swashbuckling" target="_blank">Three Rocketeers</a> for one version of this. I vaguely recall that Shadowcraft may be another skill-less Fate game. There are four actions. You even quoted the Fate SRD above where it says that there are four actions, and it even lists them: Attack, Defend, Overcome, and Create an Advantage. I must not exist then. IMHO, you are missing a HUGE element of the game: the primacy of the fiction. Aspects are always true and they are a tangible piece of that fiction that the PCs and NPCs can interact with. When you use Create an Advantage to create and invoke the aspect "knocked prone," then the enemy is knocked prone. And they have to spend an action to clear that aspect, equivalent to attempting to stand. You can use Create an Advantage to set up your attacks and defense so that you get a bonus to your attack (and damage) on the foe who is knocked prone. Create an Advantage "I have the high ground, Anakin." Create an Advantage "Stunned Against the Wall." You can do this using different skills depending upon the situation. And so on. You could take nearly every single detailed rule from the 3.X PHB that confers tactical fun and now condense that into "Create an Advantage." But without the, "I darn, I only have a 10 Int so I can't pick up the Expertise feat and then get the Trip feat." I often find myself playing tactically in my D&D groups, so take it from me when I say that I absolutely love how empowered I find myself when using this system for my own tactical-minded play.  But I have seen other super tactical players from D&D who need rules telling them what they can do find themselves tactically stumped by Fate, and I have seen non-tactical D&D players - once the grasp Create an Advantage - suddenly take off the gloves and become fierce tactical beasts. But the tactical play of Fate is rooted in the fiction first use of the mechanics.</blockquote>

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