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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 7449322" data-attributes="member: 82106">OK, so I don't have any real issue with this so far...I don't understand what rules you are referring to here. FATE points are spent to either Invoke an aspect, to Compel an aspect, or to avoid the compulsion of an aspect. I know of no other general use of FATE points. In all cases they involve aspects (and these may be aspects of any part of the game world fiction, not just of your character). I agree that they GENERALLY relate to similar things. I think however that it isn't exactly the same. Its like you have bridge and pinochle, and you are discussing bidding and rules of play in each game. They ARE similar in SOME respects. Bidding in each game serves some analogous purposes, but one is still a quite different game from the other. This is A difference, there are many others. I do see similarity, and I have never denied that there was ANY similarity, just that they're different in ways that make it difficult to talk about in any non-trivial way without getting into. Just like you cannot talk about bridge and pinochle without some reference to the fact that they use different decks. I think this is as simple as, having played D&D and FATE I can say that the results, even with 5e's added mechanisms is VERY different. They are profoundly different games, both in terms of how they play and in terms of the goals of play. There are also similarities, and we can logically classify them both as RPGs. At a core level they're both games with a GM and players who each take on the persona of a single character (usually at least). Chess and checkers move pieces on an identical board too...Well, yes, FATE is based on FUDGE, but the mechanics it inherits from FUDGE (if they are used at all, some FATE implementations replace them) are used in a very different way. FUDGE is fundamentally more like D&D than it is like FATE. FUDGE is entirely lacking the point economy which drives FATE. Yes, in FATE you can use a skill, as you could in FUDGE, to attempt to accomplish a task. This is a necessary underpinning which sets up the engagement of Aspects. So, a character needs to accomplish something, so a check is made with FUDGE dice against a skill. Aspects can then be compelled or invoked to produce bonuses and penalties to the check result. In FUDGE a character is COMPLETELY defined by these skills (and a set of underlying attributes which contribute to them). FUDGE is literally just a mathematical variation of Traveler in essence, they are both pure skill-based games. FATE is very different, even if it uses some of the same mechanics.You cannot say a given mechanic is or is not optional in FATE, because FATE isn't a complete system, it is a toolbox. Not all FATE-based games have skills! Also, FATE points cannot simply be spent to alter ANY arbitrary check, you MUST describe how you are invoking an aspect to get either a +2 or a reroll. ALL bonuses/rerolls are thus rooted in aspects, completely. You don't NEED skills for this to work either! You can simply assume everyone is equally good at all tasks, and modify checks via invoke/compel as needed. Aspects also allow tagging, which produces greater and more interesting effects, and there is invocation for effect, where you get to create a new piece of fiction by referencing one of your aspects. This alone is huge and unrelated to skills or anything from FUDGE mechanics.NOW, possibly in some FATE-based systems skills, stunts, or other attributes (FUDGE also has other categories) COULD be highly important, and might be written so as to contribute more than aspects, or to temper them, etc. Its a flexible system! However, by default, aspects are pretty much the most important thing in the game, and the other things that are up there would be high concepts, troubles, etc. Well, this is OK to a point, but FATE is not a stand-alone game. D&D is...Again though, this would be like talking about 4e and only looking at the RC. Yes, it has all the rules in it, but you need other books to tell you what all the actual classes, powers, etc. ARE. You can only talk hypotheticals here. FATE barely has a combat system in core! However, if you look at Dresden Files, or SotC, or other actual games, they have various types of rules relating to specific genre elements. Characters in actual games can have all sorts of attributes. I think it is fair to say that 4e would be more tactical than FATE, as a general thing, but this is still hypothetical. 5e, is 5e really tactical either? I mean, its OK to say a game simply does or does not emphasize something. However we were contrasting things...</blockquote>

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