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<blockquote data-quote="Shemeska" data-source="post: 3536321" data-attributes="member: 11697">The ELH tended to define a notion of 'Epic' that was, well... Lord Crunchy McMunchy in the land of the Pun-Puns. Bigger numbers, overly complex rules, even bigger numbers, and a feeling that everything and anything can be and should be pinned down to the last skill point and bonus in a very mechanical, rules-heavy notion of play. Epic as defined by the ELH gets mocked as [booming voice]EPIC!!!1!!1![/booming voice], and perhaps that's the face that it presented. Half the discussions on the WotC Epic level board seem indistinguishable from the Character Optimization boards, with the chatter being about 'builds' more than anything else.I've done campaigns stretching up into the 30's, and virtually all of that is anathema to me and my group's play style. I don't feel a need to have rules for beings that operate as plot devices, nor a need to have gods and archfiends as orcs in costumes with 100 extra hit dice and an extra page of stats. Some people might like this I suppose, but some people also obsess about stat blocks for Zeus or their 500th level half-fiend, half-celestial, half-vampire deathless LeShay fighter/rogue. Some people might complain that a lack of official stats for X epic level being oppresses them.Totally different play styles, but the ELH only touches on and seems to promote a very numbers heavy, very rules-heavy notion of epic play, and for whatever reason (speculate as you will) that perspective seems to have failed to create a market for additional products in the same style.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Shemeska, post: 3536321, member: 11697"] The ELH tended to define a notion of 'Epic' that was, well... Lord Crunchy McMunchy in the land of the Pun-Puns. Bigger numbers, overly complex rules, even bigger numbers, and a feeling that everything and anything can be and should be pinned down to the last skill point and bonus in a very mechanical, rules-heavy notion of play. Epic as defined by the ELH gets mocked as [booming voice]EPIC!!!1!!1![/booming voice], and perhaps that's the face that it presented. Half the discussions on the WotC Epic level board seem indistinguishable from the Character Optimization boards, with the chatter being about 'builds' more than anything else. I've done campaigns stretching up into the 30's, and virtually all of that is anathema to me and my group's play style. I don't feel a need to have rules for beings that operate as plot devices, nor a need to have gods and archfiends as orcs in costumes with 100 extra hit dice and an extra page of stats. Some people might like this I suppose, but some people also obsess about stat blocks for Zeus or their 500th level half-fiend, half-celestial, half-vampire deathless LeShay fighter/rogue. Some people might complain that a lack of official stats for X epic level being oppresses them. Totally different play styles, but the ELH only touches on and seems to promote a very numbers heavy, very rules-heavy notion of epic play, and for whatever reason (speculate as you will) that perspective seems to have failed to create a market for additional products in the same style. [/QUOTE]

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