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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Plane Sailing" data-source="post: 3538136" data-attributes="member: 114">I felt that the Epic material was really poorly concieved. All it did was attempt to 'turn the dial up to 11' (and I mean that in every sense that it was used in Spinal Tap).What would have been great would have been rules, material and ideas to support epic adventuring - conquering cities, leading armies, forging kingdoms, storming Hell... but all it contained was bigger attack bonuses, more damage, bigger saves, bigger spells. It wasn't even inspiring with that, either.Of course, that was much, much easier to do than create rules and material for kingdom-level, epoch-shaking stuff, which was probably why they went that way. That, and it was an extension ad absurdum of the 'back to the dungeon' ethic of 3e. It's funny that even before 1e there was an expectation that at a certain level the PCs would obtain a keep, clear land and move into a different *kind* of adventure - which used to be huge fun. 3e introduced the idea of basically bigger and badder dungeons all the way down as you continue to gain levels.If I ever ran a campaign where PCs reached 20th level, I'd continue by using something like the original Forgotten Realms Epic rules. Basically, I'd only allow 20 levels in an class (and 10 levels in any prestige class), but multiclassing penalties disappear. Any additional classes taken will add to BAB, hp, Saves as per normal (and sensible Epic fighters won't be just stacking on Barbarian, but might be thinking about shoring up those weaker will saves in one way or another). The one thing that breaks from the basic rule is any 'add one caster level' prestige classes, which beyond 20th level add 1 extra slot above the current highest level slot, which can be used for metamagicked high level spells. e.g. a wizard 20/archmage 3 would have the normal 20th level wizard slots, plus 1 10th, 1 11th and 1 12th level slot (which might contain quickened disintegrate, empowered time stop and maximised meteor swarm, for instance).... but I'd still be looking for good rules for Epic adventures. Maybe the Companions and Immortals basic sets have something useful there...?Cheers</blockquote>

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