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<blockquote data-quote="Storm Raven" data-source="post: 3262728" data-attributes="member: 307">But don't think that was for 14th level clerics and wizards though. If you look at the level ranges, what they actually meant was &quot;this module is for 10th level paladins, 11th level fighters and wizards, and 14th level thieves who adventure together because of the wonky experience point tables&quot;. And what class was unlimited advancement for virtually every demi-human race? Yep, the thief. So the &quot;level limits&quot; really didn't impact the PCs much, even if they were going on these adventures, since they were high enough that most demi-humans wouldn't have hit them yet before starting the adventure.Note also that these were the highest level adventures ever produced for 1e AD&amp;D. Even other modules in the &quot;S&quot; series were given for much lower levels - 5-10 for White Plume Mountain, and 6-10[/i] for the Lost Caverns of Tjoscanth. For 1e, the GDQ series and two of the S series comprise the almost the entirety of modules with recommended levels higher than 10. That's hardly worthwhile support for your argument.They were also originally intended as tournament modules with prefabricated characters, not characters who were part of an ongoing campaign starting at 1st level and working their way up to the challenges (contrary to the way you claim that 1e AD&amp;D was written to be played). And look at the prefabricated characters - a range of demi-humans, and humans, all within the suggested level ranges for the modules. How is this possible if the level limits are such a worthwhile brake on demi-human accessibility?1e broke well before 14th level. More like about 9th-10th level where hit dice stopped increasing, most classes stopped getting any kind of new special abilities, and save and to hit bonuses reached the point where almost anything was easily saveable or hittable.If it doesn't impact actual play, players won't regard it as anything that will impact their choices. Hence, the level limits were useless for their intended purpose.If you take the structure of 1e as a whole, then the hodge podge patchwork mess of stiched together rules becomes apparent, and the complete lack of any kind of workable system of &quot;balance&quot; or &quot;equity&quot; becomes readily apparent.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Storm Raven, post: 3262728, member: 307"] But don't think that was for 14th level clerics and wizards though. If you look at the level ranges, what they actually meant was "this module is for 10th level paladins, 11th level fighters and wizards, and 14th level thieves who adventure together because of the wonky experience point tables". And what class was unlimited advancement for virtually every demi-human race? Yep, the thief. So the "level limits" really didn't impact the PCs much, even if they were going on these adventures, since they were high enough that most demi-humans wouldn't have hit them yet before starting the adventure. Note also that these were the [i]highest level[/i] adventures ever produced for 1e AD&D. Even other modules in the "S" series were given for much lower levels - 5-10 for [i]White Plume Mountain[/i], and 6-10[/i] for the [i]Lost Caverns of Tjoscanth[/i]. For 1e, the GDQ series and two of the S series comprise the almost the entirety of modules with recommended levels higher than 10. That's hardly worthwhile support for your argument. They were also originally intended as tournament modules with prefabricated characters, not characters who were part of an ongoing campaign starting at 1st level and working their way up to the challenges (contrary to the way you claim that 1e AD&D was written to be played). And look at the prefabricated characters - a range of demi-humans, and humans, all within the suggested level ranges for the modules. How is this possible if the level limits are such a worthwhile brake on demi-human accessibility? 1e broke well before 14th level. More like about 9th-10th level where hit dice stopped increasing, most classes stopped getting any kind of new special abilities, and save and to hit bonuses reached the point where almost anything was easily saveable or hittable. If it doesn't impact actual play, players won't regard it as anything that will impact their choices. Hence, the level limits were useless for their intended purpose. If you take the structure of 1e as a whole, then the hodge podge patchwork mess of stiched together rules becomes apparent, and the complete lack of any kind of workable system of "balance" or "equity" becomes readily apparent. [/QUOTE]

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