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What is your Opinion of GURPS?
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<blockquote data-quote="Particle_Man" data-source="post: 1454497" data-attributes="member: 892"><p>Got it in one, boyo! In Gurps, it is possible to make characters that are fantastically better than others of equal points. Not slightly better. Fantastically better. And there is a temptation with gurps to go "get the points first, go for the concept later". Or else, if one has a concept in mind, but just needs more points to make it work...min/maxing follows. Most other systems have means of reigning this in, or else use random factors (so you might end up with a fantastically better character, but that's just luck of the draw, not your own choices). I suppose the closest comparison might be Rifts (which is level based and not point-based). Some classes in Rifts are simply better, in every way. I only played Rifts once, so maybe there wasn't time for my "min/max" bug to be activated (or else it really is pure point based systems that do it to me) but I did notice that the Cyber-Knight could be designed to be better than the Wilderness Scout in every way. Not almost every way. Absolutely every way, without a single mechanical exception. (by the way, am I the only one waiting for the owner of Rifts to die so that someone else can buy the rights and make Rifts d20 legally?)</p><p></p><p>If it is a point-based thing, maybe it is the simple fact that I expect a 1st level character to be fairly wimpy, but with Gurps, there is no "level" to tell me that I am a beginner, so I try for all the marbles right away, rather than patiently waiting. But if I were GMing someone like me in Gurps, I sure as heck would put tight controls in place -- maybe going so far as: no attribute higher than X or lower than average, no (or few) disadvantages, a minimum of Y points into skills, but no skill higher than attribute + Z. And if I added something like "as a guide, consider your character to be 1st level for now, and add a level (mechanically meaningless but maybe useful anyhow) every W points" that might help. Mutants and Masterminds has tight "level limit" controls on everything, but is still a "pure points" system, so I find I am not an abuser with it (I hope!). Mage: The Ascension had me wanting to make a "Detective" character with some time/space spheres to help look for clues, but none of the flashy stuff. Likely would have been eaten alive by most of the "Bad guys" in that one without friends to protect me (I mean he had a gun, but how laughable is that vs. a demon!), but I didn't care. And that one is pretty much "pure points" too, though with some tight controls.</p><p></p><p>God, I don't know. Maybe it's the art. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> All I know is that when I play Gurps I go nuts, and it doesn't happen with other systems to nearly that degree.</p><p></p><p>This doesn't mean that Gurps is flawed. It does mean that core Gurps 3rd ed. requires a tighter Gm control than, say, core D&D 3rd ed. requires DM control.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Particle_Man, post: 1454497, member: 892"] Got it in one, boyo! In Gurps, it is possible to make characters that are fantastically better than others of equal points. Not slightly better. Fantastically better. And there is a temptation with gurps to go "get the points first, go for the concept later". Or else, if one has a concept in mind, but just needs more points to make it work...min/maxing follows. Most other systems have means of reigning this in, or else use random factors (so you might end up with a fantastically better character, but that's just luck of the draw, not your own choices). I suppose the closest comparison might be Rifts (which is level based and not point-based). Some classes in Rifts are simply better, in every way. I only played Rifts once, so maybe there wasn't time for my "min/max" bug to be activated (or else it really is pure point based systems that do it to me) but I did notice that the Cyber-Knight could be designed to be better than the Wilderness Scout in every way. Not almost every way. Absolutely every way, without a single mechanical exception. (by the way, am I the only one waiting for the owner of Rifts to die so that someone else can buy the rights and make Rifts d20 legally?) If it is a point-based thing, maybe it is the simple fact that I expect a 1st level character to be fairly wimpy, but with Gurps, there is no "level" to tell me that I am a beginner, so I try for all the marbles right away, rather than patiently waiting. But if I were GMing someone like me in Gurps, I sure as heck would put tight controls in place -- maybe going so far as: no attribute higher than X or lower than average, no (or few) disadvantages, a minimum of Y points into skills, but no skill higher than attribute + Z. And if I added something like "as a guide, consider your character to be 1st level for now, and add a level (mechanically meaningless but maybe useful anyhow) every W points" that might help. Mutants and Masterminds has tight "level limit" controls on everything, but is still a "pure points" system, so I find I am not an abuser with it (I hope!). Mage: The Ascension had me wanting to make a "Detective" character with some time/space spheres to help look for clues, but none of the flashy stuff. Likely would have been eaten alive by most of the "Bad guys" in that one without friends to protect me (I mean he had a gun, but how laughable is that vs. a demon!), but I didn't care. And that one is pretty much "pure points" too, though with some tight controls. God, I don't know. Maybe it's the art. :) All I know is that when I play Gurps I go nuts, and it doesn't happen with other systems to nearly that degree. This doesn't mean that Gurps is flawed. It does mean that core Gurps 3rd ed. requires a tighter Gm control than, say, core D&D 3rd ed. requires DM control. [/QUOTE]
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